So those who don't want to work- your words- (as opposed to those who look for but can't presently gain work) aren't freeloaders?
Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't you Scottish? You've never seen any "Neds" over your way freeloading? Like in this satire?


Or a chav subculture in England who make the non chavs in the same community look bad? You know that's not true mate.
@Che Guegoofy I said "poverty" by mistake as I had mentioned poor knowing no colour earlier and lower economic statuses, but fwiw I meant it incentivizes a form of dependency, as opposed to poverty to clarify as I've personally seen this happen, but my bad.

LA cops shoot and kill 18-year-old security guard at auto body shop

Police say he was armed, coworker says he never knew the guy to be armed and that he was killed while on his knees. The part where the cops decided to take all the cameras and video of the incident is...something:

Again, I support blue lives too. You need to learn how to read.

Simor, misread your post, my apologies.There is a minority of those from lower economic backgrounds who don't wish to work, who make the majority of those from the same background who do wish to work, look bad. And you know this, you simply don't wish to admit it.

Not asserting you don't & fwiw I believe you and overall find you a sincere and thoughtful poster but you were also making gross generalisations and that's the part I disagree with. It isn't irrelevant and cops aren't seen as the enemy by all POC and it's simply untrue to say otherwise. (and don't gimme any of that "you're not from here you don't understand" spiel either as I don't need to be American to know your comment is untrue as that's just simple common sense)

In Regards to the LA Taco story by Goofyballer:

Looks like there was plenty of camera angles to video what happened. Find the goddamn security footage and get the real story. Why were the cameras taken down? Why was the security footage confiscated? I'll admit I don't know the specifics of the law w/r/t video footage, but don't the police need a subpoena to confiscate video footage?

Yeah the security cameras being taken down is seriously dodgy and doesn't make the LASD look good at all. Release the footage.

My post has absolutely nothing to do with you whatsoever

I started off my post with "I am not OK with others who think it's OK that cops are getting killed"

It is part of the whole point of my post. You are taking every other sentence and arguing with them as if I said them in a vacuum. You turned them all into straw men

The point of my post is that this country needs to be wary of the fact that more and more people are becoming pissed off at the draconian nature of how its citizens are treated. To the point that we now have CHAZ and people literally believing in actually abolishing all police

For example, kids in cages at the southern border are going to remember how they were treated and who was responsible for it. We could actually be creating terrorists without even realizing it thanks to ideas put forth by Stephen Miller and heeded by Donald Trump

If we created a thread that said "Support of ICE Lives" I would be making the same point. The public will be outraged whether you support ICE lives or not. It isn't relevant how anyone feels about it. What is relevant is the public is angry and they want change. And if there is no change, then the public will stay angry and no one wants that

Never said it was. On internet forums posters tend to reply to other posters whether it's anything to do with them or not. It's why it's an internet forum.

No I simply responded to the parts of your post I disagreed with.

I'll essentially agree with this part of your post except with the draconian part.

Oh I agree with you on that part, no argument there.

Now it's you who's looking at things in a vacuum. It's not irrelevant if you're a victim of sex tourism in the Philippines whose abuser is arrested by ICE and brought back to America to face justice for example as opposed to a kid put in a cage in a detention centre. And again your POC comment was an untrue gross generalisation which doesn't hold water, sorry.

So no it isn't irrelevant it simply depends on one's perspective.

More on Andres Guardado shooting
https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2020...dres-guardado/

So apparently they smashed all the cameras and confiscated the video with a warrant they got after the fact?

I dunno about a warrant I can't find that in the linked article, I'd presume they'd need one to confiscate stuff but am not sure. Has there been an update re this?

This is why I said it has nothing to do with you:

That's all. I'm saying you being non American has no relevance to the point I'm making

Yes and you keep disagreeing with things I've never said

You don't think anything the police are doing right now is draconian? They have done some crazy things, all documented. In New York, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez had to physically show up to a location where there were peaceful protests, but the police were blockading the area so that the protesters couldn't disperse on their own. The cops did it specifically so they could use force once they were out past the designated curfew. This has been a tactic used in multiple locations around the country. Phone Booth has a post which suspects police are letting the looting and rioting go on and using it as an excuse to get violent with anyone they choose. There is some evidence to suggest that has happened as well. In Buffalo, a 75 year old was pushed to the ground and started bleeding onto the pavement as dozens of cops just marched on by. In Minnesota, a cop kneeled on a man's neck for 8 minutes, pre and post death, knowingly while on camera. You don't think any of that is draconian? They were just doing their jobs? There's no way you think that. I think you're misspeaking here

Another straw man...

You really think that I'm speaking for all persons of color when I say a person of color views the police as the enemy?

My comment about persons of color is talking about those who are slowly becoming indifferent to the killing of cops. I laid it out at the beginning of my post. The problem with your responses is you keep ignoring that beginning part which keeps everything else in context

It is important that this is understood, because the title of this thread is Support of Blue Lives. Better governance will lead to better outcomes when police and citizenry interact, and that will ultimately make the job of the police that much easier. The point is to change the sentiment of angry people who believe they are victims so that instead of wanting dead cops, they trust alive ones

OP this probably isn't the best forum if you are looking for words of support for US police officers. But poll after poll shows most Americans have positive opinions of their local police department and its officers. By a wide margin.

You don't really need to go to 2p2 or Twitter looking for positive comments, it's like going to the Vatican and asking for words of support for women's right to choose.

I have zero resentment. I'm lower-middle class, and almost marvel at my ability to be self-sufficient sometimes (but not really. because I was endowed with some good ability by our creator) for the mania/depression/anxiety I inherited from my biological father. It's too bad some people do not have enough introspection to empathize with others.

And sitting on your ass, watching daytime TV is nothing to envy. People need to contribute for a sense of self, purpose etc.

Of course I admit that. That is obviously the case, but the point is, the benefits far outweigh the negatives. We should be a nation who strives to support those less fortunate than us for the sole reason that it creates a happier populace. I pay a lot more tax than most people, and I forgive the "benefit thief's" whose numbers are minuscule compared to the people who genuinely need help. Which is why I have no time for these mongs who barely pay 20% tax getting furious that their tax money is "going towards layabouts" that they could easily become given any random act of misfortune.

I regard what happened to that protesting pensioner as police brutality and hope the cop who did it is fired, charged tried convicted and incarcerated.

Cops don't need excuses to get violent with looters and rioters. If cops are getting violent with peaceful protesters also en masse then that's wrong also, just like cracking a pensioner's skull is wrong.

You said "to a person of colour" not "to some people of colour". A person of colour implies all poc and I'm not the only one who noticed this either.

I have no time for police brutality or excessive force. I would never blindly support or blindly condemn and we both agree that cops are fallible as is LE as an institution. I have no problem with bad cops being condemned and indeed punished.

And no I think your use of the term draconian is melodramatic hyperbole. But no surprise there considering the amount that gets used on this forum anyway.

Can't actually disagree with you there. I'm not against the dole system to clarify and fully agree with supporting those less fortunate. Anyone can lose their job and anyone can be out looking for work and certainly shouldn't e abandoned, so I do agree with your point in this regard. I further agree that the benefits ultimately outweigh the negatives.
But my original point was that it does incentivize a form of dependency among some. In America specifically I actually do think- or to be more precise strongly suspect- it's done deliberately and I further suspect it's partially due to a form of racism tbh of the White Man's Burden variety and partially to ensure some will vote Dem. I further think it's one of the reasons black American conservatives get vilified so much by the American left.

Fair point, but I would maintain that even if it does, so what? We accept these outliers because by and large it is a huge positive, for the reasons already stated. I think too many people are taken in by the position that their tax money is "wasted" on those with no intention of working, when the reality is that these people are a huge minority and one that should be accepted for the greater good. We support the system because for every one "scrounger" there are fifty genuine people who need help. Let us not punish the majority for the actions of the few who would seek to abuse us. That's it.

Well fwiw that wasn't my point and essentially I actually think we agree with each other more than we don't.
My point re dependency was to highlight why some black Americans specifically have become disillusioned with the Dems.

Neither Ireland or Scotland are America and what works for us might not work as well over there. And neither Ireland's, Scotland's or the UK as a whole has racial issues anywhere near as awful as America's. Whereas we see things in terms of economic status overall (there's plenty of crappy council estates over our ways that are either predominantly white or racially mixed for example), with America it's also race related possibly primarily.

Economically the black American community seem to be on the lower end of the tier overall and some of them resent welfare programmes initiated by the Dems due to the racial aspect as they consider it a means to keep them down in a generational sense and I honestly think their point in this regard has merit and do believe some black conservatives are being demonized over their issue with this.

Again I don't believe that UK people look at things through the same racial prism as Americans and I know the Irish don't. But in America it's a whole different kettle of fish.

So whereas we simply see the dole as a means of helping those less fortunate- and again I do agree with you on this and also ultimately share the same "so what" philosophy as like you I do think the benefits outweigh the negatives, despite systemic abuse by a minority of people-it's different in America due to its history and simmering racial tensions so again I understand some black conservatives having an issue with welfare within this specific context..

Not sure if I'm getting my point across as well as I'd like to but hopefully you get the gist of what I mean.

The "support of blue lives" trends would probably come off as more genuine, if they didn't consistently explode right after a black American has been killed in a dubious or outright horrific police action and there is public outcry. It does come of as a bit disingenuous, eerily similar to a nationalists' call to patriotism or waving the flag around (which does in fact fool a lot of non-nationalists).

Presumably if you are really focused on police lives, then we should expect a systematic effort towards things like yearly medicals (reduces lifestyle diseases) with stricter physical requirements (reduces lifestyle diseases, reduces stress), better stress monitoring (staves of depression and lifestyle diseases), better initial training and better followup training

This is a good one to watch. Can skim through the interaction but towards the end, while in court, the prosecutor tells the guy how he's lucky he wasn't in rural Texas where they don't have cameras and audio and the the "bad guys with badges" would have roughed him up, thrown him in jail and lied in court after the fact.

That's because it is disingenuous. The people who espouse it don't really understand that because they think what they're really doing is presenting sympathy for the police, like in the OP

They're not thinking about how their timing and prioritized interest reflects how and what they think beyond the words they are saying

For example, I worked in a business that NEVER gave discounts to police, fire, and military. I changed that policy to a 15% discount once I was in charge. Because I know and understand the job is not easy even if I disagree with things and find other things a disgrace here in America. I actually support blue lives. I don't yap about it the minute the sudden new message around the country is black lives matter. I've always felt black lives matter. I've been vocal about the treatment of persons of color for decades...

So when I see people suddenly now talking about it, I am mildly amused. I'm not blind, however, it is still a good thing, but it is also a reflection and reminder that most people are complacent, don't give a **** in reality, and only care about themselves. Now is the moment people pick to say blue lives matter? It's pretentious bullshit. It is frustrating that it took Floyd's death and the proliferation of social media to get a whole nation to react the way it did. We're decades late on this

But therein lies the problem. People who think they are good really just don't understand. I am annoyed that people feel the need to say blue lives matter because I've thought that way long before they did, and starting a thread about it is in a way revealing ignorance. I certainly understand and accept the sentiments of the OP, and even agree to an extent, but the OP and others need to understand how it looks to a person like me and others who have actually given a **** about this subject DECADES before anyone else did

It really just boils down to the same, tired explanation of why there is no need to say all lives matter or whatever iteration of it. Everyone (who isn't at the end of their wits) agrees that all lives matter. We agree cops matter. We agree that violence is bad as is destroying property needlessly. But this is a massive fire and the point of origin is not the moment police officers suddenly felt threatened, or white people suddenly feel threatened...It's the literal and figurative cry for help of George Floyd and all who came before him, but weren't allowed to breathe either. Again, everyone here is alive except for the dead, who are supposed to be alive and free or alive before the trial actually begins

This is practically a reality in every part of America. Cops get away with murder, literally and figuratively, for lack of documented evidence...

I knew someone, former police, who scoffed when a guy started talking about how Frank Rizzo (Philadelphia mayor in the 70s, police commissioner before that) was a badass. This guy I knew said yeah if being a badass was letting cops shoot Black people in the back...Because yeah that **** happened. And people wonder why segments of the population grow angry, militant, and want to kill cops. Are any of you familiar with Mumia Abu Jamal? I would say he might not have ended up shooting a cop in the face if cops weren't shooting Black people in the back...It's all ****ed up and wrong. But if people are going to deny reality and ignore context, then you're going to repeat history. Rizzo was a ****ing half century ago!

That is why people now make the ACAB argument. Those "bad apple" cops do not really get put away like other criminals do. They get protected, and the system backs them up. This is all very, very bad. Unfortunately, and somewhat understandably so, cops generally aren't interested in being Serpico, with or without getting shot. So you can see an endless cycle of lawlessness that exists and has existed for as long as people irresponsible of their power have been able to go unmonitored. Like Will Smith says, racism isn't getting worse it's getting filmed. Even now we have citizens getting shot in the back on camera and there's still a defense of it, en masse...It's just so twisted to me, because I understand the purpose of procedure and some of the law behind the aftermath of these events, but god damn, do people not realize a human being was killed? We just jump to the defense of the act part and ignore there's a wide gap between apprehending/subduing a suspect/every measure of deescalation and unloading the clip or center mass "immobilization" ???

I personally believe not all cops are bad. There are many cops right now who probably go to sleep at night and are 1) extremely confused and/or conflicted and 2) extremely annoyed and frustrated at what is going on right now. And it has nothing to do with ideology. It has everything to do with mentality, indoctrination, training, and the pressure they feel to back up their fellow man (other cops who trust each other with their lives). It is not easy to just magically satisfy everyone. In fact it might be impossible. The laws need to change or this madness never ends