I think cancelling medical debt would make much more sense than student debt. Medical debt is the result of a bad medical system and normally is not planned.

The growing shift of college educated people to vote Dem isn't some secret. Even the MSM acknowledges this. This is from a NBC article.

This is an astonishingly terrible post.

Wow, I'm surprised it was the opposite as recently as 2000. I would have guess it had been 40 years since the college-educated vote had reversed.

Well, when they were idealistic and actually in college probably most college kids traditionally identified as Democrat. But when they became a (wealthy) adult they tended to shift to the party that actually supported their interests, which was Republican. But starting with the Clintons the Democrat establishment decided they would become a 2nd party that supported the wealthy and they would keep the proletariat class distracted over culture war issues, mainly race, so no-one noticed what was going on.

This shift is perhaps demonstrated most eloquently during the Clinton/Sanders debate when Sanders was making some valid economic class based point, and Clinton asked him something to the effect of "How does that stop racism" and it was checkmate and from there the Democrat party has been cynically pushing racial grievance politics to distract the populace while they team up with the Republicans to transfer wealth. And of course now that Democrats are passing laws which actually favor educated, wealthy coastal elites (at the expense of the poor) they are consistently voting that way.

Here is another graphic which showed the shift of the educated elite class towards racial grievance politics as a method to divide the proletariats.

Of course !
More and more the Republican Party fall in the fascism/theocracy trump camp , less and less educated people stay .
They aren’t brain dead for a reason , they went to school …

I tell u a secret , most poor people don’t pay tax high enough to be the ones paying those student subsidies because they don’t win enough money to begin with to pay taxes …..

It ain’t the rich that benefits from biden plan to writing off students loans , it’s exactly the opposite .

For over 40 years tax cuts exist in the US that contribute to increase wealth inequality at the expense of the poorest .
The best way to help is exactly to make health care education more affordable to everyone one .

Well yeah. The right wing is openly hostile to the idea that objective truth even exists. Many people feel that global warming and evolution are hoaxes, vaccines don’t work and Trump won the election. Since people feel this way the right validates those wrong feelings. No surprise they are hemorrhaging educated voters in an unprecedented fashion.

Yes, YES i am. I want to address this as once again people on this forum debate skills are so incredibly poor.

Whataboutisms used to deflect and that add nothing to the discussion + bad. They are tactic to derail.

Whataboutisms that are used to directly compare things that not only need comparing but the arguments would suffer without that, = good.


If Eliot Spitzer is running for office again, and he promises a tough on crime, tough on prostitution agenda, the whatabout your use of prostitutes while in office the last time, is not only appropriate to bring up, but would be negligent not to.

If lozen is screaming 'ignore the whatabout' and focus only on him now wanting to be tough on crime that is because lozen is trying to protect him from a legit needed discussion.


Just because some 'discrimination' is bad and wrong does not mean ALL discrimination is bad and wrong.

You would be very wrong on that.

i've read so many discussion by the Trumpist who defend everything he has done as pure and good who argue this student debt forgiveness is an abomination. You could not be more wrong.

And it should apply to trade schools too, if it does not.

I'll answer this more generally.


The history of the US is that 'groups' HAVE ALWAYS got very specific pandering type relief or benefits from the parties, who seek their votes.

The gov't amasses money from the citizens and then gives much of it back in pandering ways. Why a bridge in one State over another? Often you need only check the votes and who is in power. Seniors, Veterans, Suburb voters, have enjoyed this for decades on end amongst others.

Things have changed in the last couple of decades with this enormously disengous pretense that is trotted out each and every time now, that a benefit is directed at working people, that these programs need to be pure and without pandering and without discrimination. That is a stupid non argument and yet it is the one the MSM will run with in an attempt to kill this.

MC class relief, is ALWAYS a good. It does trickle sideways, down and up.

This 'the perfect is the enemy of the good argument', so 'give nothing' is being pushed by the elite but stated by silly gullible people in the middle who will also benefit.

Student debt relief is not a perfect way but it will help ALL of US society. There are dozens of more things that can and should be done to invest in the MC, as it will help all of society. Instead each and every time you have these false arguments to try and stop them while all the benefits keep going up to the Elite and Corporations providing far less benefits to Society.

This is a reasonable first step in reparations towards those who have been harmed by boomer capitalism.

I actually agree a lot with this .
Not claiming that what all boomer did was wrong .
I think they did a lot of thing that was probably needed and cost lot of money (ending up in debt) .

What is despicable is boomer complaining about debts student loan forgiveness (which is small) while it’s not the boomer that will end up paying for all the debt ( created by tax cut , wars etc.) they made during their whole life which amount to like around 150 trillions ffs !!!

If their is one group that should seriously shut the hell up about debts forgiveness its boomer 55+ .
Not to mention school expensive have been going 3X in today cost compare to the cost they had during boomer education.

It won’t be the boomer that will pay down those debt of course but the ones that came after them ….
At least help the new generation for god sake by reducing the debt burden from education, helping them to pay down boomer debts ….

Actually no one will directly pay as there will not be a new tax to pay the bribes to students so it will simply be more printed money covering the cost leading to more inflation. So only a fool or leftist troll thinks the poor won't pay.

How cute you think the debt will ever be paid down, Democrats have learned to steal from those that work for a living to the parasites that vote for a living. Absent the Democratic fraud of claiming taking money from FICA creates an asset(the taken money) but the IOUs left for that money are not a debit allowing them to lie about the actual debt US Federal debt has not decreased during the lifetime of most living persons.

I have to disagree with you here; I also dislike all the benefits going to the wealthy and corporations, but I think the money would be better used in programs to help the poor than the middle class. The fact that lots of expenses and tax cuts are made to pander for votes doesn't make it right to pander to the middle class voter, which is clearly what this gimmick is doing. Student debt relief doesn't make me think that modern Democrats are as bad as Trumpists, but it does lower my opinion of the President and the Democrats who support this action.

For reference, I am a middle-aged home-town state university educated person who was raised lower middle-class and has had a lower-class to lower middle class income for most of his adult life. I never had any student debt, have always lived within my limited means, and have never had much debt other than a mortgage. I believe that most people who still have significant student debt for more than a few years after getting middle-class employment have it because they live beyond their means and waste a lot of their income. They believe that because they went to a fancy school and got a job, that they are entitled to live an upper-class lifestyle and are upset that they can't afford to buy everything they would like to have. I have known many people like this and I have no sympathy for them.

And yet only during Clinton ( yup a Democrat) years deficit went down ….
Nice trolling tho …

U don’t seem to understand from your last 2 post that inflation is actually paying down debts .
That is how u pay it down ….

The gimmick isn't about pandering to Democratic voters. The gimmick is doing something meaningful via executive order to get around the fact that Republicans have dedicated their political strategy towards using the filibuster to prevent Democrats from doing anything good, even if it has bipartisan support, even if they think that it is good for America in a vacuum because their priority is preventing Democrats from having any success to point to when running for office.

There are a lot of things that Democrats would do to help the poor if not for this roadblock. This is something that can be done when the alternative is doing nothing.

Please,
Don’t compare your way of life of today , especially if you are 50+ …

It’s massively different from globalization and the 2008 gfc and probably way back to 2001 .

Just the leak of manufacturing jobs (mostly middle
Class ) since 2000 is around 5 millions and like 7.5 millions since the 1980 .


https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MANEMP


And so what happens when u can’t have many manufacturing good job to belong in the middle class ?
U have to go to freakn overexpensive school .

That is the problem that probably wasn’t in your time …
And house price were incredibly lower due to high interest rates btw .

Comparing today with 20-35 years earlier is disingenuous.
Economic reality are totally different .

+1

It’s funny to speak about buying votes for the masses when the oligarch and lobbies just keep buying politicians for decades with impunity .

But for polarbear it seem it’s ok …

I never had a manufacturing job, nor did anyone in my family, I don't see how that applies to anything.

Also, when housing costs were lower but interest rates were very high, that didn't make homeownership easier.

I've been living with the current economic reality just as much as people younger than me. I lost my "decent" job (middle class income but no benefits at all) after the 2008 recession and I haven't been able to find even a job as good as that since then.

Not everyone needs to get a college degree. Lots of the of the office jobs I have looked at recently don't require a degree. Too many people go to college these days.

Yes too many young people go to college because lot of middle class job that didn’t need a college education been ship throughout the world for decades .
So where should they go if it’s not trying to have a competitive edge with a degree ?


Middle class is shrinking because those without a degree end up at wallmart amazon job and those having a good degree end up at the top tier earners .

Another poster previously said ( paraphrasing ) not having a college education is like not having a high school “degree” like 30 years ago and imo is right .
Except a high school diploma wasn’t as expensive as a college tuition in 2020 .


Yes Access of home was not easier but that is not the point, EVERYTHING was costing less and with small amount of money it was actually worth it to save money and make money from that .

And see , even you can’t have a job as good u had pre 2008 and u expecting young kids today shouldn’t bother to have a degree ?
Let’s have more trumpster see how it end up …

Who would u choose as an employer , someone with a degree or someone without one ?
Wall mart ftw …

This is imo a misconception .
Maybe u don’t but I do make a distinction between contributing and paying the actual cost of something .

Ie : let’s say u have a kid paying down 200$ Monthly allocation for a 2k mortgage payment to live with you .
One day u sell the house and your kid come see you and say :
“ hey pop , I deserve 50% from the house profits because I pay for the house …”
What would be your answer ?

Everyone contribute of course but obviously not everyone pays .
If u think that money would be pay down by the poor for student loans , then another budget would have to not be paid by them …

This response is tone deaf in the extreme.

You think I'm a Trumpster because I said I would prefer help to be given to the poor instead of to the middle class?