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06-23-2023 , 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Bubble_Balls
How does portraying a vile character using a slur promote the use of that slur? Who is being persuaded to use these words based on negative portrayals? The use of such words is a clue to their character. If it’s lazily used as a shortcut to character development then that’s bad writing but that’s all. You’re still getting clues into a negative personality trait. It’s not like they’ve got marvel superheroes dropping N-bombs.

Why is it just bigoted words and not actions you want censored? Why not ban depictions of slavery or the holocaust?

Some guy’s being whipped to shreds but at least the slave master is not using the N word? We wouldn’t want kids to get confused and emulate the language of such a role model? Wtf dude?
Okay... Maybe instead of whipping someone to shreds (which let's face it sounds really violent and unpleasant,) the slave owner could have a very stern word with him instead, and say nasty things like "you're my property and you have to do what I say as this is olden times when slavery is legal and there's nothing you can do about it so there!" and the guy could say "this is horrible, slavery is really bad and shouldn't be allowed. I hope in years to come it's outlawed", and then the slave owner retorts "HA! that'll never happen! Never ever ever!" and then the audience would know slavery was bad and reflect and think "Wow, they really shoulda known better back then, thank goodness we've progressed since and that slave owner was proven wrong" and then they'll feel better about things?
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06-23-2023 , 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc
I would imagine that would be better screenwriting as well.

The whole "show don't tell" idea.

I think this is far better. You can also just say I hate black people, don’t have to use a word that means black people are less than human and it’s acceptable to enslave them.

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Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc
I'm guessing since it was in a class they were going over each other's work and PW made the suggestion that perhaps "fruitcake" might be a better choice of words. (Or maybe that was the f slur in question idk).
I was reading a part and someone else was reading another part and they called my character a F word and before she read the part I cut her off and said we aren’t going to say that word in class.

Bobo fett must be delusional if he thinks I make threads or spend my time trolling people.
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06-23-2023 , 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Bubble_Balls
How does portraying a vile character using a slur promote the use of that slur? Who is being persuaded to use these words based on negative portrayals? The use of such words is a clue to their character. If it’s lazily used as a shortcut to character development then that’s bad writing but that’s all. You’re still getting clues into a negative personality trait. It’s not like they’ve got marvel superheroes dropping N-bombs.

Why is it just bigoted words and not actions you want censored? Why not ban depictions of slavery or the holocaust?

Some guy’s being whipped to shreds but at least the slave master is not using the N word? We wouldn’t want kids to get confused and emulate the language of such a role model? Wtf dude?
I don’t think the N word should ever be said because it shows people that slavery is to some degree acceptable. Even if it’s just acting, the person is acting in acceptable enough of a manner to be the lead role and for people to hear them say those words.

Yes I think there’s a huge difference and you guys are downplaying the power of perception
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06-23-2023 , 05:44 PM
damn, this OP sucks
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06-23-2023 , 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by caseIIclosed
damn, this OP sucks
I don’t think it’s ever ok to say the N word, but apparently plenty of people do. Just goes to show that people are more racist than they like to admit.

The N word should be treated the same way here that Germany treats their N word over there.
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06-23-2023 , 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by PointlessWords
I don’t think it’s ever ok to say the N word, but apparently plenty of people do. Just goes to show that people are more racist than they like to admit.

The N word should be treated the same way here that Germany treats their N word over there.
Germany specifically exempts artistic depictions of nazism from their ban.
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06-23-2023 , 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Bubble_Balls
Germany specifically exempts artistic depictions of nazism from their ban.
Are you including screenplays in these
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06-23-2023 , 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by PointlessWords
I don’t think it’s ever ok to say the N word, but apparently plenty of people do. Just goes to show that people are more racist than they like to admit.
Oh you can properly get to **** here!

Classic SJW response "If you don't agree with me then your just racist". This is so disingenuous to the arguments being made by pretty much everyone else in this thread
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06-23-2023 , 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Bubble_Balls
Germany specifically exempts artistic depictions of nazism from their ban.
It can exempt them. It’s not by default
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Originally Posted by J.E.C
Oh you can properly get to **** here!

Classic SJW response "If you don't agree with me then your just racist". This is so disingenuous to the arguments being made by pretty much everyone else in this thread
One side says they don’t want to hear racist words in art

The other side has said they enjoy hearing racist words in art

It is pretty simple to see that the people who enjoy hearing racist words and prefer to hear them over not hearing them has more racism in them than the other side


All the best
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06-23-2023 , 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by PointlessWords
Are you including screenplays in these
Yes. Even video games.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stra...ch_section_86a

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Section 86a includes a social adequacy clause that allows the use of the symbols that fall within it for the purposes of "art or science, research or teaching". This generally allows these symbols to be used in literature, television shows (as with the 1960s Star Trek episode, "Patterns of Force", itself allowed after 1995),[29] films, and other works of art without censoring or modification and stay within the allowance for the clause. For example, German cinemas were allowed to screen Raiders of the Lost Ark and Inglourious Basterds, films which feature frequent displays of Nazi symbols, without censorship.

Up until 2018, video games were not included in the social adequacy clause. A High District Frankfurt Court ruling in 1998 over the video game Wolfenstein 3D determined that because video games do attract young players, "this could lead to them growing up with these symbols and insignias and thereby becoming used to them, which again could make them more vulnerable for ideological manipulation by national socialist ideas".[30] Since this ruling, the Unterhaltungssoftware Selbstkontrolle (USK), the German content ratings board, would refuse to rate any game that includes symbols under Section 86a, effectively banning them from retail sales within Germany. This led to software developers and publishers to either avoid publication in Germany, or create alternative, non-offending symbols to replace them, such as in Wolfenstein II: The New Colossus, where the developer had to replace the game's representation of Adolf Hitler with a version without the moustache and named "Chancellor Heiler".[30]

In August 2018, the German government reversed this ruling as a result of a ruling from April 2018. The web-based game Bundesfighter II Turbo was released prior to the September 2017 elections, which included parodies of the candidates fighting each other; this included Alexander Gauland, who had a special move that involved Swastika imagery. When this was noticed by public authorities, they began prosecution of the game in December 2017, submitting it to the Public Prosecutor General's office for review based on the Wolfenstein 3D decision. The Attorney General declined to consider the game illegal under Section 86a, stating that the 1998 ruling was outdated; since then, USK had adopted age ratings for video games, and that there was no reason not to consider video games as art within the social adequacy clause.[31] As a result, the Federal Department for Media Harmful to Young Persons adapted the Attorney General's ruling to be applicable for all video games within Germany, and subsequently the USK announced this change in August 2018; USK will still review all games to judge whether the use of imagery under Section 86a remains within the social adequacy clause and deny ratings to those that fail to meet this allowance.[30] In August 2020, Through the Darkest of Times, in which players follow an anti-Nazi resistance group, became the first game permitted by USK to depict swastikas.
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06-23-2023 , 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by PointlessWords
It can exempt them. It’s not by default


One side says they don’t want to hear racist words in art

The other side has said they enjoy hearing racist words in art

It is pretty simple to see that the people who enjoy hearing racist words and prefer to hear them over not hearing them has more racism in them than the other side


All the best
Who said they enjoy it? In some cases it would be a ridiculous whitewashing to not say them in a piece of art.
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06-23-2023 , 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Bubble_Balls
Who said they enjoy it? In some cases it would be a ridiculous whitewashing to not say them in a piece of art.
We aren’t talking about cherry picked choices.

There’s a list of like ten people above who want to hear racist words in the media. They just expressed as much.

If they didn’t want to hear racist words in the media, then why would they prefer to watch a movie where, everything else equal, uses the N word while the other doesn’t.
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06-23-2023 , 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by PointlessWords
It can exempt them. It’s not by default
Of course they’re not going to let glorification of nazism through just because it’s art. Things like parody, historical and critical depictions are the reason for the exemption.
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06-23-2023 , 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by PointlessWords
It can exempt them. It’s not by default


One side says they don’t want to hear racist words in art

The other side has said they enjoy hearing racist words in art

It is pretty simple to see that the people who enjoy hearing racist words and prefer to hear them over not hearing them has more racism in them than the other side


All the best
Man this is so stupid. No one here is saying they enjoy the racism just that they enjoy a good price of art that is accurately depicting the time period it's set in.
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06-23-2023 , 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by PointlessWords
We aren’t talking about cherry picked choices.

There’s a list of like ten people above who want to hear racist words in the media. They just expressed as much.

If they didn’t want to hear racist words in the media, then why would they prefer to watch a movie where, everything else equal, uses the N word while the other doesn’t.
No one has said they want them. People have made the argument that it’s constitutional and some scenes in films would either be absurd or have less power/teaching effect without them.
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06-23-2023 , 08:03 PM
I'm a jew and I wouldn't want the various shakespeare anti-semitic bits just washed out of the plays. Put the plays on with the original words, or don't put the play on. (or update it fully for a modern audience).

Audiences don't need protecting.
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06-23-2023 , 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc
If you're going to have racist characters then it's probably important that they say racist stuff, I would imagine.
But not to the degree portrayed. My father used to enjoy pointing out to me that many movies used Jewish actors to portray nazis.
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06-23-2023 , 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by wazz
I'm a jew and I wouldn't want the various shakespeare anti-semitic bits just washed out of the plays. Put the plays on with the original words, or don't put the play on. (or update it fully for a modern audience).

Audiences don't need protecting.
Why do you think this is about protecting the audience?


Do you guys think that Tarantino films without the N word would be worse?
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06-23-2023 , 10:57 PM
I think it's pretty clear that Trantino could make any film without the N word and they would still be great. Obviously it's necessary.
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06-23-2023 , 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc
I think it's pretty clear that Trantino could make any film without the N word and they would still be great. Obviously it's necessary.
You meant unnecessary/not necessary right


Do you think it would be better or worse without the N word?
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06-23-2023 , 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by PointlessWords
You meant unnecessary/not necessary right


Do you think it would be better or worse with the N word?
Yeah not necessary.

Honestly the only N word line I can remember is from pulp fiction. It might be necessary there.
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06-23-2023 , 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc
Yeah not necessary.

Honestly the only N word line I can remember is from pulp fiction. It might be necessary there.
That’s fair. Thank you for being open to the idea
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06-23-2023 , 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by PointlessWords
That’s fair. Thank you for being open to the idea
"Dead black people storage" really just doesn't work. You'd have to rework the whole scene. I'm confident that Tarantino could do it.
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06-23-2023 , 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc
"Dead black people storage" really just doesn't work.
Black peoples storage works fine
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06-23-2023 , 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by PointlessWords
That’s fair. Thank you for being open to the idea
More interesting are the bigger questions that you allude to in your OP about what sort of social responsibility filmmakers and artists in general have and I'm sure eventually the discussion will move in that direction.

I read an interesting piece on the topic some months back and will try to find it.
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