I asked my wife to talk dirty to me one time.

She told me I was lucky she talked to me at all.

She had a point so I just let it go......

I have her as a solid 7 but I'm not as old or rich as her target audience. She's really attractive in some photos and just okay in others. But better than Marge Shott for sure.

Dunno man, all that stuff about tigers surfing on the breezy ocean is a bit of a deal breaker for me.

dude Musk is a scam artist.

and ofc Bezos invested in Google. cue the Carlin line.

That's nothing. Back in the day Bezos gave up 20% of amzn at a $5MM valuation.

Today if you are not obese you get at least a 6 since more than 50% are obese. So yeah.

I get the Musk is a scam artist arguments but he still has great vision for the spaces where opportunity really exists even if he over promises.

Musk may never fully deliver on the ultimate promise and hype he put into Tesla and electric cars but he changed the industry and the industry will deliver.

Musk may never fully deliver on Space, Solar City, Batteries etc on how much hype he built in, but the industry will deliver.

He has legit vision for where opportunity exists, in many cases where no one else sees it even if he way over promises and promotes.

You van go back to Paypal to see that.

Was that his Seed Round?

Yeah. Pretty sure he had a checking account, though.

Well Amazon was founded pre the Dot Com era (1995) and StartUps seeking capital back then had to do so on more traditional metrics.

20% on a $5MM valuation for an Online Bookselling Company that had no clear path to profitability would have been more than fair back then.

By 1998/9 those valuation metrics started to change and soar and if he did a round in that time frame he would have done much better. But then those valuations crashed again in 2002/3.

It is really only in the last decade or so we have seen those type of DotCom valuations return and i watch, often in amazement, knowing the history of the last crash and that so many companies getting those valuations now, are potentially setting us up for another such Crash cycle.

Many people argue this time is different but it really is not much different at all IMO.

Expanding on the above as someone who had an inside seat during the DotCom era.

The DotCom era, much like a significant percent of todays Tech era ws built on 'Belief' and not 'Multiples'.

The traditional way to value a company for investment is on a multiple of its value TODAY. Earnings are the most common method but there as always been some future aspect.

Many DotCom era companies got valued with no earnings (some no revenue) based on a 'Belief' if they were cashed up the value would catch up, and then justify the investment from the back side.

When many companies, failed to hit those growth numbers and it became clear, investors then lost confidence and began a race to dump the securities causing a crash. That crash spread as people then pre-emptively tried to get out of MOST such securities not wanting to be caught. Even good companies got pummeled.


So what is so different today? You have Tesla, last I looked that has a valuation that would require it get 50% of the global auto market to justify todays valuation. Tesla almost lost that investor confidence a couple years back when it became clear they would never achieve those numbers and I submit had Tesla crashed then, it could have triggered a broader crash or correction just as happened in 2002.

Elon has become a Master at avoiding the 'trap' of 'real results', by throwing so many 'other home run revenue streams' up against the wall that if his investors lose confidence in Auto sales they can cling to hope on dancing robots. Yup, this is actually the NEXT future Tech revenue stream that you can put in the list to help you get there should you be discouraged by real results for car sales or any of the prior 5 big Tech promises he made that are not going to be met.

And I am not saying Tesla or Elon cannot get there and one day actually justify their valuation based on real metrics, I am just saying Elon is smart enough NOW to ensure real metrics have nothing to do with his valuation. Something the DotCom companies were not yet savvy enough to do.

And VC are far more committed to the "too big to fail' premise now in investing, which means they believe if they can make it big enough, the company will always then get the money to succeed as failure would just be too costly to, to many others.

But when that does fail, it fails ugly as WeWork and Softbank found out. Forced up to crazy valuations ($47B) based on 'Faith' and no tie to any real metrics this spectacular crash saw it plummet to just over $2B while paying out its 'fraudulent' CEO almost a Billion to go away.

Meanwhile a real company like Regus who did not play the hype and "Faith" game traded on more traditional valuation metrics and had real profits and the stock market punished them comparatively for it.

So for me it is interesting to see it all come back around again and I watch with interest.

I mean you are flat out wrong about Musk.

Any idiot can have a “vision.”

Okay cool so lets see what you think then as we look at the opposite of my stated views.

What Victor believes:

- you do not believe the Musk is a scam artist arguments

- you believe Musk will deliver on the Tesla hype and promise

- you believe Musk will fully deliver on all the Space, Solar City and Battery stuff

- But you think he has no vision

So Victor, I am curious how you connect, what I would call your overly confident belief in Musk's hype with you think he has no vision?

And they all do.

Few can turn that "vision" into Billions, time and time and time again.

Being a scam artist is a lucrative gig. Fully self-driving cars are just around the corner, right after the Hyperloop comes online next quarter or so.

I stated the large degree of hype he builds in. I also said he always needs to point to newer and more hype so the air in his valuation bubble will not deflate.

But that does not mean he has achieved nothing just because he is not hitting the grand slams he says he will hit.

He is getting on base and hitting solid singles and doubles and arguable triples, but just not the homerun, he himself sets the goal posts out so far, it would near impossible to achieve.

But Paypal is still a big success, and he has a lot to do with that.

Tesla is at the leading edge of changing the world in terms of Electric cars and he has a lot to do with that.

His Solar, Battery and Space initiates are also significant.

Don't make the mistake of saying that because he does not meet up to his own hype that he is akin to Elizabeth Holmes or the Fyre Festival, as he has proven much more than that.


I am no Elon fan but the number of his haters who blind themselves with irrational hate, that I have bumped in to over the years is astounding. They deny him credit in every area he has played in.

It's just plain old envy. Surely the successful must have a moral shortcoming the unsuccessful aren't willing to succumb to. What else could it be? Ironically, increasing equal opportunity (in a class sense) seems to increase envy even more.

Love you, bro. Bestiof.

I feel sorry for you.

Defence has rested, charge conference & closing statements start on the 16th.

Thx. This and the Ghislaine Maxwell (Epstein) case are just left in the quiet dust by all the Trump stuff.


(oh and thx for putting in my head Jizz lane as I can't read her name now and not hear it like that.)

That so many people believe Musk is not a con man explains a lot.

Holmes is a hottie. I'd give her a 7/10. Maybe higher if she didn't speak with that fake man voice. Sadly she's gonna get convicted and do some time.

If it pleases the court, I would like to submit evidence marked Article A1 as rebuttal to the previous counselor's statement:

Ya to each their own and I am legit happy we all have different taste so we are all not chasing the same females, while ignoring all the rest but other than being fit, which today is a significant plus, I find her not to be my type at all. Not even a little bit. Not sure if she was doing the work to hit on me i would respond to it, if any other options i was interested were in the room.

But i get she has a 'look' some will like.

They all look like that when I'm through.