Riggie containment thread - Page 102 - Politics and Society -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

I will repeat my pre-RGT point from SMP that YEC is politcs more than it is religion

In much the same way that covid denial type stuff is politics more than it is science

11-05-2021 , 06:14 AM

#2527

d2_e4

certifiable moron

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 12,171

Quote:

Originally Posted by lagtight

I do not agree that YEC is "anti-science."

Of course, I mean, science is a gift from god, so how can believing in god be anti-science? That would be crazy talk, amirite?

11-05-2021 , 10:15 AM

#2528

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by d2_e4

Of course, I mean, science is a gift from god, so how can believing in god be anti-science? That would be crazy talk, amirite?

Right!

11-05-2021 , 11:50 AM

#2529

Cuepee

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 17,339

Quote:

Originally Posted by lagtight

I do not agree that YEC is "anti-science."

...

I'll use wikipedia for ease but happy to review any other source if you have something that you think is better.

This is a summary of the major points of YEC.

Characteristics and beliefs

1 - View of the Bible

2 - Interpretations of Genesis

3 - Age of the Earth

4 - Human history

5 - Flood geology

6 - Attitude towards science

So do you think these are a fair reflection (not saying they are everything) of the Characteristics and Beliefs of YEC and if not can you edit them or change them or add to them to give us your view?

And if you do think they are a fair reflection are you arguing that Science generally agrees with the YEC position in those areas?

11-05-2021 , 07:23 PM

#2530

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuepee

Other than a few minor things, I think that the section of the article you linked is a fair representation of the YEC that I agree with.

Phrases like "Science generally agrees..." represents a category fallacy (specifically, the fallacy of Reification) . Science doesn't agree or disagree with anything.

Having said that, much of YEC is at odds with much of the current opinion of a large majority of scientists in the relevant fields.

Last edited by lagtight; 11-05-2021 at 07:30 PM. Reason: added the last sentence

11-06-2021 , 06:45 AM

#2531

BingoSchmingo

banned

Join Date: Oct 2021 Posts: 12

Quote:

Originally Posted by lagtight

Do you have a link to a peer reviewed journal which confirms the utter deranged claim that the universe was created by a god?

(I know your answer will be, as usual, worthless garbage, but since you asked the question I asked multiple times, I though it would be funny to see you entangling yourself in contradictions)

11-06-2021 , 11:17 AM

#2532

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by BingoSchmingo

Do you have a link to a peer reviewed journal which confirms the utter deranged claim that the universe was created by a god?

Please rephrase the question; as stated your question combines two elementary logical fallacies: The The Complex Question Fallacy and the Loaded Question Fallacy. You might benefit from a course in Critical Thinking.

Quote:

(I know your answer will be, as usual, worthless garbage, but since you asked the question I asked multiple times, I though it would be funny to see you entangling yourself in contradictions)

Well, since you know what my answer will be, I don't need to waste my time answering it, now do I?

Have a nice weekend, Bingo!

11-06-2021 , 11:20 AM

#2533

d2_e4

certifiable moron

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 12,171

Oh good, a lagtight enters and we have another religion thread.

11-06-2021 , 11:34 AM

#2534

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by d2_e4

Oh good, a lagtight enters and we have another religion thread.

Unfortunately, it will probably get the proverbial boot to RGT soon.

11-06-2021 , 11:37 AM

#2535

BingoSchmingo

banned

Join Date: Oct 2021 Posts: 12

Quote:

Originally Posted by lagtight

Summary so far: You can't link to a peer reviewed journal which confirms the claim that the universe was created by a god.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lagtight

Well, since you know what my answer will be, I don't need to waste my time answering it, now do I?

Have a nice weekend, Bingo!

Well in this case I was referring to the type of answer you would give, not the actual words of course. You might benefit from a course in Critical Thinking.

11-06-2021 , 11:50 AM

#2536

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by BingoSchmingo

Summary so far: You can't link to a peer reviewed journal which confirms the claim that the universe was created by a god.

Quote:

Well in this case I was referring to the type of answer you would give, not the actual words of course. You might benefit from a course in Critical Thinking.

Your whole original post was a mess, so it can take a while to decipher such things (for me, anyway).

*I'll be at the Chico State Library later today, so I'll see what I can find.

11-06-2021 , 12:02 PM

#2537

ecriture d'adulte

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 5,924

Quote:

Originally Posted by d2_e4

That's a fair point, but I also fear that "supporting Trump" or more generally "voting Republican" is more of a default/passive setting for a significant % of the US population than many would like to believe. Of course, taking it to Qanon levels does require one to be more actively involved in the lunacy.

Voting patterns are also a default setting, for many dems and republicans. But there are quite a few categories of default settings imo. I think Earth age might be very easy for a fairly high percentage of young Earthers to abandon. I brought up the Exodus story because I think that is still widely believed in the US and probably even easier to get people to stop believing because people only believe it because they are familiar with it, not that they've actually thought about it. It basically completely falls apart after just a little scrutiny.

11-06-2021 , 12:08 PM

#2538

BingoSchmingo

banned

Join Date: Oct 2021 Posts: 12

Quote:

Originally Posted by lagtight

I will apply the Principle of Charity here, and re-cast your request as follows (sans the elementary logical fallacies in your original version):

Provide a link to a peer-reviewed journal that confirms the claim the the universe was created by a god.

I will endeavour to honor your request and do some research on that.*

Your whole original post was a mess, so it can take a while to decipher such things (for me, anyway).

*I'll be at the Chico State Library later today, so I'll see what I can find.

Summary so far:

You were not able to provide a link and your "promise" to look for it in a library (lol) is a very cheap attempt of distraction.

11-06-2021 , 12:10 PM

#2539

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecriture d'adulte

Voting patterns are also a default setting, for many dems and republicans. But there are quite a few categories of default settings imo. I think Earth age might be very easy for a fairly high percentage of young Earthers to abandon. I brought up the Exodus story because I think that is still widely believed in the US and probably even easier to get people to stop believing because people only believe it because they are familiar with it, not that they've actually thought about it. It basically completely falls apart after just a little scrutiny.

Quite so. There are many who self-identify as "Old Earth Creationists." The most prominent promoter of that view would probably be Dr. Hugh Ross.

11-06-2021 , 12:16 PM

#2540

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by BingoSchmingo

Summary so far:

You were not able to provide a link and your "promise" to look for it in a library (lol) is a very cheap attempt of distraction.

Not a distraction at all. Most peer-reviewed articles online are behind a pay wall. I want to actually see an article itself, not just the abstract for it.

I'll let you know what I find.

11-06-2021 , 12:19 PM

#2541

BingoSchmingo

banned

Join Date: Oct 2021 Posts: 12

Quote:

Originally Posted by lagtight

Not a distraction at all. Most peer-reviewed articles online are behind a pay wall. I want to actually see an article itself, not just the abstract for it.

I'll let you know what I find.

Summary so far:

You were not able to provide a link, you keep trying to distract and you won't even "let me know" what you found unless I ask you again.

11-06-2021 , 12:27 PM

#2542

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by BingoSchmingo

Summary so far:

You were not able to provide a link, you keep trying to distract and you won't even "let me know" what you found unless I ask you again.

I certainly will let you know what I find out without your prompting.

After that, I'll probably put you on IGNORE since you only seem interested in trolling rather than having a real conversation.

Your response to this post (if any) will be a good indicator of whether you are trolling or not.

11-06-2021 , 12:42 PM

#2543

BingoSchmingo

banned

Join Date: Oct 2021 Posts: 12

Quote:

Originally Posted by lagtight

Summary so far:

You were not able to provide a link, you keep trying to distract and you are (despite your claimed desire to have "a real conversation") already setting up to ignore me.

Conclusion: You never had any desire to have "a real conversation and are actually doing the "trolling" you try to accuse me of.

This is called "projection", a very common technique among people who lack the skills to have "a real conversation".

11-06-2021 , 12:50 PM

#2544

King Spew

Just average

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 15,227

Bingo taking a lesson from QP. (ya just need MANY more words, b)

11-06-2021 , 12:51 PM

#2545

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by BingoSchmingo

You're on IGNORE, Bingo!

For the edification of the non-trolls, I will provide any resources I find at the Libarary plus any links that aren't paywalled that I can find.

11-06-2021 , 03:04 PM

#2546

Cuepee

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 17,339

Quote:

Originally Posted by lagtight

Don't mistake the fact that not all issues in science have 100% consensus with the idea that there are not positions held within science that are 'accepted science'.

YEC is pretty much outside science. I don't see a single area in any of those 6 bullet points that YEC believe that would be within 'accepted science' and thus calling YEC as a faith 'anti-science' would be correct.

11-06-2021 , 03:43 PM

#2547

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuepee

Don't mistake the fact that not all issues in science have 100% consensus with the idea that there are not positions held within science that are 'accepted science'.

Got it!

Quote:

YEC is pretty much outside science. I don't see a single area in any of those 6 bullet points that YEC believe that would be within 'accepted science' and thus calling YEC as a faith 'anti-science' would be correct.

I'm unaware of any "accepted science" with respect to Operational Science that many (if any) YEC would disagree with.

It becomes more pronounced in the realm of Speculative Science.