I have a million questions about these idiots. I obviously was making a joke. I'm sure that was apparent to you.

As to your last question, these people aren't fantasizing about JFK Jr., the actual human being. They are fantasizing about the return of some Bizarro world version of JFK Jr. who is a Trump supporter. They are imagining an entirely different person than the person who died in 1999.

The other amazing thing is that, when people fantasize that someone like JFK Jr. is still alive, they imagine the handsome, young version of the person who lived in the 1990s. JFK Jr. would be a 61-year old man now.

QAnon is a national phenomenon drawing in millions of people.

Right. That's what he said.

I would find it quite encouraging if the % of YEC's in the US is that high.

You would no doubt find it encouraging if congress passed a law that heretics should be burned alive, but we digress.

I thought you must have been exaggerating, but...

https://scienceandbeliefinsociety.or...ts-in-the-usa/

Yikes!

Unfortunately, I don't need to exaggerate in this spot.

Once you buy into that it's not much more of a stretch to believe JFK Jr is going to arise from the grassy knoll.

Now you're just being dumb; clearly public stoning is to be preferred.

Why is it unfortunate?

This is a very good article, but it doesn't confirm that 30-40% of Americans are YEC. The main conclusions of the article are that (i) stated beliefs depend enormously on how you ask the question; and (ii) a lot of people aren't certain about the particulars of their beliefs.

The first point has been well understood by social scientists for decades. At some point in the late 1980s and 1990s, a social scientist illustrated the point by asking one group of respondents "Do you favor a government bailout of savings and loan associations?" and asking a comparable group of respondents "Do you favor government intervention to support the stability of savings and loan associations?"

I don't remember the exact numbers, but there was a huge difference in the percentages of people who answered yes to each question.

People in this forum who cite opinion polls as definitive proof that Americans overwhelming support X, Y, or Z policy would do well to read this article.

I understand why you say this. Central to both groups is a willingness to accept conclusions on faith, regardless of the affirmative evidence, the contradictory evidence, or the absence of evidence.

But there is no way the overlap is concentric. For example, there is a segment of the black population, especially in the South and especially among older people, that is deeply religious. Many in this group would self-identify as creationist. Few in this group would agree that the 2020 election was stolen from Trump.

And some of these riggies are just reflexively anti-. If they are told that something is true by the MSM, establishment politicians, the church, the academic establishment, or any other traditional source of authority, they reject it as a lie.

Agree with your post, but for clarity, I meant that the circle of nutjobs is entirely contained within the circle of YECs, not the other way round. I was, of course, being hyperbolic on this point (on the other hand, I do think the 35-40% figure of YECs, even if not entirely accurate, is at least indicative and cause for concern).

This point is also well illustrated by the "survey" known to every aspiring prankster, where respondents are told certain pernicious properties of "dihydrogen monoxide" and asked if they would be in favour of banning it.

Because the position is rooted in anti-science and anti-intellectualism.

You wouldn't disagree with that, right?

When you combine that with the fact they also have a thirst for power and a compulsion to want to seek to force others to live by their beliefs through the control of laws you should see why that is unfortunate.

I mean, it is one thing if my anti science neighbour believes he needs to sacrifice his first born to the Sun god and that is scary enough. It is quite another if he seeks the power to force me to do same and to force all to reject the science because he is secure in his faith.

I don't mean any hyperbole in that and ask that earnestly.

You do see why having people who reject any science and intellectualism that conflicts with their faith beliefs could be a serious issue for society if they are given the power to legislate and compel right?

Because idiots are a net cost to society.

Sounds pretty bad. I hope no one drinks dihydrogen monoxide.

On a similar note, I'm a big fan of this video:

wow.

or maybe wow²

Sure, that's some nuance missing from d2's point and my agreement, but the fact remains that an extremely high number of Americans choose a very clear YEC option. Even if the specifics of YEC may not be something all would agree to if questioned more deeply, the fact they don't reject it outright says a lot to me.

There is no question that the U.S. is more religious than many people realize.

I’m sure there is a lot of overlap but I think the big difference between the 2 groups is that YEC is just a passive default setting that many people just believe without much thought. Probably an even higher percent believe something like “ there was a large group of Hebrew slaves in ancient Egypt” despite the fact that the Bible stories on which that is based are obviously not historically accurate. Qanon is a far more active lunacy.

That's a fair point, but I also fear that "supporting Trump" or more generally "voting Republican" is more of a default/passive setting for a significant % of the US population than many would like to believe. Of course, taking it to Qanon levels does require one to be more actively involved in the lunacy.

Religious beliefs are of a different makeup in my view as they are foisted upon people when they are completely dependent and vulnerable and possibly interpreted as a condition for survival. When the people who give you the only access to food and shelter you have tell you some nonsense you just go with it, whatever it is.

Wacko views adopted later in life, voluntarily, are different and probably indicate problems. I suppose there are some babies by now getting a proper QAnon indoctrination. Those beliefs might be harder to tease out from mental illness later in life in many cases, I suspect. The chance of the offspring of two Qanons having schizophrenia will probably like 10x that in the regular population.

I do not agree that YEC is "anti-science."

I object to anyone who has a thirst for power, no matter what their reason.

I object to the vast majority of Republicans and Democrats for the same reason: They want money and power. For example, the so-called "Climate Change Crisis"* is 99% about money and power, and about 1% about improving the quality of our environment.

*Is it still called that? I know it was rebranded from "Global Warming" sometime back.