Dude Elon is worth in excess of $250B.

30% of that is just over $80B. So WTF is the issue with $10's of Billions.

Again as Trolly says do you ever tire of being so ignorant or wrong when it comes to business talk?

Starting to think it might be some kind of fetish, tbh.

Cuepee

Do you want to make a bet on whether Tesla hits 2300 in 30 days from now? I'm down to **** around on a silly bet, throw out some numbers.

We can use King Spew as the middleman - assuming King Spew has no issues with that.

A couple of things formula.

You can see my bet clarifications above but also understand this is not a bet I was offering for anything other than Av's as it is not something I have any confidence in. It was a silly bet to get a chance to control Inso0's Av for a month.

Grunching but the reason not to trust him is that he has far too much money and power.

No one with so much should be trusted.

Fwiw about Inso claims on musk ( or any billionaires ) not being liquid because of shares value going down …

When they sale , it does of course go down since you add lot of supply to the demand .

But borrowing and using shares as collateral ( like any person owning a home knows how it works ) and losing lot of value , not so sure.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/09/busin...ock/index.html

« Credit, mostly. Musk and other uber-wealthy folks borrow substantially from banks, using their stock or other assets as collateral.
In August, a Tesla filing revealed that some 88 million of Musk's Tesla shares have been pledged as collateral "to secure certain personal indebtedness." At the time, those shares were worth $63 billion »

« Tax loophole
Critically, those bank loans aren't taxed the way regular income would be ».

« The bank will fork that over with a smile and give you a really good deal, say 3% interest. But if Musk got that $10 million from selling Tesla stock, it'd be likely be subject to capital gains tax, at a rate of about 20%. Plus, a CEO can't just sell stock anytime they want — when they do, it's usually a sign of trouble, and that can cause investors to panic. Musk's mere suggestion of a stock sale, which he has to make because of his options package, sent Tesla's stock price down nearly 5% on Monday.

This borrowing setup is partly why Musk, as well as Amazon founder Jeff Bezos, the two richest people on the planet, have paid little or no income tax in recent years, according to an investigation by ProPublica. »


With around half his shares holding of Tesla being collateralized already, it didn’t prevent Tesla to gain 50% valuation this year …

Bank love collaterals…..

Do you trust broke people?

I know the middle class is shrinking, but there's still middle ground between people worth 12 figures and no figures.

I've been trying to explain this to Inso0 for pages now but he seems both unaware and unable to process the fact that drawing debt versus Stock has no direct impact on stock price.

Inso0 has a very rudimentary and base understanding of some of these concepts being discusses but beyond that it is clear he is trying to use talking points he really does not understand. Thus why when questioned and what he says falls instantly apart he has no answer but snark or to pretend he is above it.

I did find that to be a bit of a weird statement by Chez as trust should be earned by everyone at every level.

Not to speak for Chez (as that is very dangerous) but my extrapolation on that point using the most simple example I can think would be that the 'earning of Trust' requires some leash given, an assessment of what the person then does with that leash, and then an allowance of more leash or even off leash permissions'.

We could get into a semantic argument over that initial leash being trust but most times it is 'risk'. You cannot 'trust' another person you have never engaged in as you have zero of the foundational elements of trust. Instead we take an initial 'risk' (extend some allowance to engage) and we judge results, which then builds or erodes trust.

If that is how Chez is approaching it then that 'leash' must be magnitudes tighter with the Uber rich than the impoverished due to how much more power they have and how much damage any betrayal of that trust (risk allowed) would be.

I took the thread to be about trust in the sense of 'do we need to be worried about general dangers they might pose to world economy/politics/etc'?

In that context no I dont think we need to be concerned about individual poor people. We do need to be concerned about individual people who are very rich and powerful and they should not be trusted.

I think the leash concept in on the right lines but it fails because it's a vanity on our part to think we can have an effective leash on such rich powerful people.

We make a big mistake in allowing them to become so wealthy in the first place.

I have nothing in particular against Musk and he basically agrees with me on the important issues so is obvbiosuly bright He generates lots of science/tech activity in these areas which is great. He is just far more rich and powerful than any one person should be and that should never be trusted.

Well majority of the world still think the US dollar is great even if the US are basically broke ..

He took his influence, followers and opinions and and went to war on Twitter versus a British cave diver who helped save 12 kids and their coach in Thailand. Behind the scenes, Musk also tried to out the cave diver to reporters as a child abuser with fabricated stories.

One outburst we could chalk up to temper, but the complete story tells a picture of character.

I see no reason to trust anyone like that.

There are lots of the 2+2 politics posters who call people all sorts of horrible things. I'd trust most of them (some of them I would trust a lot). We dont have to take their nonsense seriously - far more so if they're famous/celebrities twating away

Newton was a real **** but I'd still trust him to do maths and science. I wouldn't give him the keys to the castle.

Musk is definitely odd. Preferable to being perfect but definitely odd.

A liar who uses his vast influence to feed fabricated stories to the press to ruin the life of someone who is trying to save human lives, no thanks. That's scum.

The problem is 'vast influence', That I dont trust and we dont need evidence not to trust it. No offense but I wouldn't trust you with it and I wouldn't trust me with it either.

On the particulars, I dont follow that stuff closely because it's usually silly nonsense but fwiw a jury didn't seem very impressed.

Plenty of people have vast influence, not many of them try feed lies to the press in attempts to ruin the life of someone who volunteers to aid in international rescue efforts.

That's not "heat of the moment", it is character.

What a US jury has to say about it isn't very relevant. The US values the right to free speech greatly, if you can afford the lawyer fees when sued.

Ok well you obviously have studied this story in far more detail than I ever will. I dont trust my abiliities to judge people by these sorts of media stories and I dont trust anybody else's either.

I'm not sure the trial can be dismissed so esasily but maybe. People do win deformtion cases dont they? and I assume the jury were presented with the evidence. i'm not sure it hinged on free speech very much but what do I know. Maybe one of our laywers will comment.

I'm taking my robot taxi to buy my cyber truck then gonna ship some solar panels in one of his big rigs. I'm curreny using star link to type this bc it is totally available and always connected

He is the most successful fraud of all time eclipsing all other confidence men

Chez, thanks for letting us know you aren’t informed and don’t have any intelligent opinions on the matter.

Ya i will always remember my father (RIP) saying to my brother and I as children the most dangerous person is not someone who steals your possessions but is the person who will lie about you and seek to destroy your character when they feel the truth does not serve them.

As a kid that just kind of rolled over me but later in life I learned that was indeed, the biggest threat many face.

Through numerous dealings with people in business you see many willing to use casual but dangerous lies to win and see nothing wrong with that. To them winning is what matters. For me it was an instant caution even if they were on 'my side' of the issue as I assume that person would then lie against me if we ever fell into dispute.

I think it is one of the highest indicators of the persons morals and that they should not be trusted as truth is a tool for them only which means then that you need to back check anything they tell you to ensure there is no agenda reason for them to lie and give you false info.

I think there's a lot of truth to that but theres has to be some caution when applying it.

We see a lot of character attacks in forum politics and beyond with pretty blatent lying involved. Often it falls into the category your father refers to but often it's ill-considered humour and/or insults.

Many leave the wrost of it behind in the playground. Some dont.

Maybe one day you will realise how little you know

Maybe you already do but dont like to let it get in the way of a good days trolling

Chez, it would be very easy for you to read up on the Elon defamation case and come back with an informed opinion instead of babbling about how you don’t know anything about it.