I actually don't think we are far off as I don't think anyone needs to eat his hype either. I don't.

I did not eat the bullshit of the Steve Job cultists either.

But I also won't eat the bullshit of the haters who are the flip side of the same coin.

They go as far into anti hype as he does hype.

Buying something does not mean it was going to be successful regardless.

Electric cars were always more of a pet project than a real business due to the mass amounts of money to succeed in the space.

When California tried to force it pre Musk, all the big auto companies lobbied, and likely big oil too, to kill that effort and they succeeded. Big Auto then united and proclaimed the electric car was dead to them.

As long as one of them never chased it then none of them had too. Why spend all that R&D to build it out to just swap one type of car sale for another, especially when electric cars were far more expensive.

It is BECAUSE Musk was able to build a crazy cult following (like Steve Jobs) that he was able to endure, raise so money and have buyers lined up. That is his biggest skill. He recognizes spaces with opportunity and is able to raise the mass amounts of cash to get there.

That is not easy nor something to be dismissed.

Think about it. Tesla, SpaceX, his Solar City, his Battery Tech each and every one requires mass amounts of money up front to build out before you get to any revenue.

Look at something like Facebook which has a relatively cheap build out (programming and Servers) and the costs scale as your ability to make money off them do.

I simply reject that you could plop anyone into Musks seat and see all these initiatives moving forward as they are.

What was it that Elon said about dogecoin on SNL that sparked your fancy to purchase some dogies and hop on the train?

My guess is this:

So, you're calling Teslas death traps on a hunch? LOL. Rather than relying on your hunches, next time you're searching for anecdotes about how terrible Teslas are, maybe spend 30 seconds doing a search for safety studies? I don't know if there are many industries that are more scrutinized in terms of governmental oversight and industry media (Car & Driver, Consumer Reports, etc.) than the automotive industry. I did a search, and guess what I found? Tesla constantly at or near the top of ratings. You know what I didn't find? Any studies that showed Tesla was so much worse than every other car that it would be remotely reasonable to call them death traps.

That doesn't mean they're the best cars in existence, or that there aren't some sad and unfortunate stories out there. And it doesn't negate your other criticisms of Musk. But your death trap assertion was beyond ridiculous.

Cuepee made some great points:

To which you responded with this:

I have no idea what your point was. The video backs up what he said about driver assist technology, and provided nothing I found even slightly concerning.

It was either that or Elon's explanation of circulating supply that did it.

Washoe definitely owns 42 different warranties for the same vehicle.

Nobody with a rational brain thinks a Tesla is a bad vehicle. It's the first EV to get over 200 miles per charge, and isn't ugly (unreleased truck not included).

As far as Musk, he's a megalomaniac who knows he has a cult like following and will be able to gift them for everything.

Isn't he some kind of professional scientist? You're the ****in' assistant to the landlord!!

Hello!

Sure he does. He has 200 billion dollars. That gives him power, influence, and possibilities that the average person can never obtain.

I mean, yeah, he wasn't bitten by a radioactive spider, he merely was born into a millionaire family of emerald mine exploiters and used that as a springboard to obtain the type of wealth that no human should ever have.

His influence was sufficient to overrun local laws and regulations and throw his workers back into the COVID pit before they were supposed to be allowed to return to on-site work. I wonder if those workers were tweeting about Musk's sick dogecoin crypto cult **** from their hospital beds as they were put on the ventilators.

Any decent society is taking 95+% of this robber baron's wealth.

The fact that a minimal amount of research reveals that the supply of dogecoin is effectively infinite did not trouble you when you made this purchase?

This seems to be the best thread for this since it deals with 'Trust' and since I do not think it needs its own thread.




While I do believe gov'ts have horribly failed to set minimum standards for Privacy Limits on what type of data Big Data can and cannot take or ask for in their TOS that no one reads, this is the type of service I would gladly give my palm print for.

Yes I trade convenience for my privacy already with the far more invasive NEXUS card that allows me to bypass lines in Airports and thus bypassing the lines in Stores with less invasive tech would not be something I would fuss over.

Quick point on the above as it really is one of my pet peeves.

Most people don't know, as they do not read them, but the TOS for many free App's are just what are called Permission Banks.

You give them the right to basically do anything they want with your phone. They can access your camera and watch you, access your microphone and listen to you. You agree they can go in and delete and replace App's if they want and upload new Apps. You agree they can go in and read and copy all your data in any files or documents.

Many of the App makers who make the commodity Apps (flashlight, calculator, etc) do so only because the Permission Banks have value. You can sell them.

Imagine in the future you have an App that you know can be worth massive money if it gets uploaded 1 Million times (?whatever?) the first day or week. You buy enough Banked Permissions to just upload it without asking. We are all used to our Phone suppliers adding App's and other things in their updates. It is not uncommon. Now instead the private App maker or company can do so.

Gov'ts could have easily dictated that such default permissions cannot be blanket given in a mass TOS agreement, and MUST be asked each and every time.

Whenever Big Data does something, it's important to remember that convenience is just a selling point. The overarching goal is just to get various data into their closed and almost completely deregulated eco-systems. They want to predict your behavior and control what seems available to you, the one with the biggest key to that data-set has enormous market power. As we saw in the Cambridge Analytica scandal, it also gives enormous political power.

It can superficially seem as a fair trade-off if we just look at what happens in the interaction itself, but it is important to remember that the other tools in their toolbox is to kill competition, use international structures that make regulation impossible in practice, block oversight and destroy, exhaust or make invisible 3rd parties that try to hold them to even the slightest levels of transparency. These days, national governments are included on that 3rd party list.

In my eyes this is not a healthy development. We're outsourcing how we live, trade, act and interact to a 3rd party with minimal insight into what they're doing behind closed doors or what their plans are for the future.

We are. It's scary.

And yet I still want to skip the lines.

:{

Hertz orders 100,000 Teslas in deal reportedly worth $4.2 billion

It’s the single largest order of electric vehicles
Oct 25, 2021

Rental car company Hertz has ordered 100,000 Teslas as part of an ambitious plan to electrify its fleet. A first tranche of Tesla’s Model 3 sedans will be available to rent from Hertz in major US and European markets from early November...

...Hertz went into bankruptcy in May last year after the car rental market was hit hard by the pandemic. The company, which is more than a hundred years old, was eventually re-financed to the tune of $5.9 billion by investors led by Knighthead Capital Management and Certares Management. According to Bloomberg, Hertz now plans to electrify nearly all of its roughly 500,000 cars and vans, with the Tesla order comprising a significant first chunk...

...Hertz’s interim CEO Mark Fields said: “Electric vehicles are now mainstream, and we’ve only just begun to see rising global demand and interest. The new Hertz is going to lead the way as a mobility company, starting with the largest EV rental fleet in North America and a commitment to grow our EV fleet and provide the best rental and recharging experience for leisure and business customers around the world.”...

Suck it Musk haters: https://www.wsj.com/articles/elon-mu...&mod=djemITP_h

Musk is a hero and a true citizen of earth. If anyone deserves to be the richest man it is surely him. Throughout history the richest men have always been good guys and he is no different

It's worth noting that much of Musk's net worth is tied up in Tesla equity, which currently has a P/E ratio of something like 400.

Or better put, about 40-60 times higher than industry peers.

That's about as sustainable as Democrat tax policies.

Sorry this was painful so o dodged the question. Elon said he will put a dogecoin on the moon. That was the spark that did it for me. I was playing with the idea when it was at 0.0003 cents only a few month earlier. I didn't trust my instincts enough then but when elon said it guess how tilted that made me. It wad naive and a rookie mistake I know. Will not trust elon again I think unless he actually does it.

Nope. Too much wishful thinking. He can still do it though. He didn't say in what time frame. And I'm probably adding some more at the price now. (It's now one third at what I got it)

it's the ultimate Meme stock. A bet on a future of achievement that is impossible to put into words.

When you see what it would require to actually grow into that valuation it means something like being the #1 car Manufacturer and most profitable by far, being battery platform going forward that will power most things, being the biggest, most profitable Solar company and dominating 'AI in Autos an other areas.'

They call it 'Convergence' because all these things play off one another and thus if one wins they can all win.

But there is no reason to believe Tesla wins all areas. It could be someone else's batteries that win, someone elses Solar, someone else AI and even if his Electric Cars win bigly, that value has to collapse to a fraction.

Once upon a time a Company called AOL got a massive valuation in what was called the DotCom age. Most in the Finance world could not understand why this New Media, DotCom Internet company that provided a way to get on line and in to their media eco system online was valued at more than Time Warner a massive conglomerate with many times the revenue and profits of AOL.


And yet AOL merged with Time Warner (purchased them) just before the Dot Com crash.

That purchase and the value crash of AOL with the DOtcom bubble burst saved AOL. They just ended taking half the value of Time Warner shareholders going forward.

Elon should learn from that. Use his stock and buy GM, buy Volkswagen, through in Berkshire Hathaway and call it a night.

You just won the StockMarket long term.

Yes I don't want to put harm on anyone. Elon said only risk on doge what you can spare. From what I understand doge has no value and as was said has no limitation in quantity. Meaning it is super high risk reward ratio. Meaning you could lose it all. If he makes it to the moon soon though. I still have some pennies on it that's all..

So how easy is it to gather hands to manipulate and move the needle to "meme" a trillion dollar company to make it the ultimate meme stock?

It's essentially a glorified pyramid scheme, it depends on people investing their money, so the existing investors can make money. Those last or still in the system when it crashes foots the bill.

When i call it the ultimate Meme stock I just mean it now trades like a piece of Art more than a Stock. The value today is based on your ability to have someone else buy it only and not based on inherent or real future value.

There is not even a rational argument you can make for its forward value multiple. I mean, you hear Cathy Wood try and basically it is 'ya they just need to hit 4 consecutive Grand Slam home runs and voila 'Convergence' and the valuation is fully realized', but short of that you selling Art to someone who buys it.