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Re: libertarianism in the time of covid Re: libertarianism in the time of covid

06-26-2020 , 12:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson
You says this like they haven't tried this many times before.
I guess I'm not very up to speed with ancap developments. They have?
Re: libertarianism in the time of covid Quote
06-26-2020 , 12:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d2_e4
I wish we could just ship a few thousand of these dunces off to a remote island to run their libertarian utopia and see how they get on.
Nice idea but it was unfair on the native americans
Re: libertarianism in the time of covid Quote
06-26-2020 , 12:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chezlaw
Nice idea but it was unfair on the native americans
Lol, ok, I get it now. Sorry, Trolly, guess I was being a bit slow!
Re: libertarianism in the time of covid Quote
06-26-2020 , 12:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bacalaopeace
They have the sorts of ideas that occur to smart nine year olds - things like why can't I just stop paying taxed by declaring myself an independent country - the difference is that smart nine year olds soon understand that reality conditions the imagination in important ways.
Speaking of 9yr olds(sorry--future potential self owners ) Are the lifetime contracts still valid if we 'guide' their hands before the chloroform wears off? I assume no do-gooders will be bothering me, but ya never know these days. Regulations lol you dumb statists. Also, how many pieces of bubblegum equal a dollar in paradise? This mine's not going to dig itself.

I hope the neighbors don't mind when I build an airstrip and start importing 3rd world gangsters and set them loose to get a taste of the free market. It's kind of a charity thing.
Re: libertarianism in the time of covid Quote
06-26-2020 , 12:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by luckproof
They kind of did that in Hong Kong for a little while. Not complete anarchy (no rulers) but very limited govt. Seems to be the right direction to go in, you will be disappointed thought because it didn’t turn into a prison.

I’ll be back later, in the meantime someone change the thread title to “The Triggering” please, thanks.
lol Hong Kong was not some super limited govt libertopia.
Re: libertarianism in the time of covid Quote
06-26-2020 , 12:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by luckproof
Sounds like our political system


How realistic is what we are doing now? We have a fiat currency heading to 0, like all the rest of them did, and endless unjust wars that cost trillions.
No, it doesn't? The state doesn't require Democrats and Republicans to agree to decide who owns a piece of land.

And once again, nearly 200 states in the world have significantly smaller militaries than us. You're flailing.
Re: libertarianism in the time of covid Quote
06-26-2020 , 12:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wet work
I hope the neighbors don't mind when I build an airstrip and start importing 3rd world gangsters and set them loose to get a taste of the free market. It's kind of a charity thing.
Don't worry bro, everyone has their own "security company" on retainer for just such an eventuality, ldo.
Re: libertarianism in the time of covid Quote
06-26-2020 , 01:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d2_e4
I wish we could just ship a few thousand of these dunces off to a remote island to run their libertarian utopia and see how they get on.
As chez observed, we in Britain did do that one time, and, after a certain amount of roundabout, it produced the United States of America. Opinions differ as to how well that experiment came off.
Re: libertarianism in the time of covid Quote
06-26-2020 , 01:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by luckproof
They kind of did that in Hong Kong for a little while. Not complete anarchy (no rulers) but very limited govt.
My late friend Barbara Ellington OBE was the senior Foreign Office official in charge of the British handover of Hong Kong, and I assure you that this description is not correct. Although Hong Kong remains a problem for anti-colonialists, since it was clearly better off under late-twentieth-century British colonial rule than it's ever going to be under Communist rule from Beijing.
Re: libertarianism in the time of covid Quote
06-26-2020 , 02:20 PM
And if you overlook the whole way HongKong was 'handed over' to the English lol Just like paradise.
Re: libertarianism in the time of covid Quote
06-26-2020 , 02:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d2_e4
I guess I'm not very up to speed with ancap developments. They have?
Yes. It didn't work.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seasteading

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Atlantis
Re: libertarianism in the time of covid Quote
06-26-2020 , 02:47 PM
They should have tried building a road first.
Re: libertarianism in the time of covid Quote
06-26-2020 , 07:09 PM
If his society involves any type of small state that requires taxation to run then he is initiating force himself and its a contradiction.
Re: libertarianism in the time of covid Quote
06-26-2020 , 07:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DodgerIrish
lol what if I paid them enough for their credibility to no longer factor in? They have one client.

Do you think the historical examples of private armies cared anything about their credibility to anyone other than their employer? I mean, seriously lol bro. The gov't is so evil and bad but private mercenaries are the arbiters of fair justice?

Everyone knows mercenaries are loyal to the highest bidder. lol but, but they might care about future business by people who would want them to ... not be loyal?
They don't control their credibility, the market does. They might not care about their rep, but other firms and courts will. Are you going to buy every judge, court and arbitrator too?


Quote:
Originally Posted by DodgerIrish
What if you were able to hire a 'security firm' that didn't care about rulings or courts at all?

What if you could afford to have tens of dozens of dudes to knock at doors to ask for payment regardless of any kind of dispute at all? Then what?

Everyone else might band together and look for a common defense against unmerited attacks... Hey, sounds like the beginnings of a government and society to me.
10's of dozens! Holy ****! Yeah they would get killed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RFlushDiamonds
So magic ?

That's the problem. If libertarians aren't proposing an actual better system then what's the point ? It juts becomes a religion where you worship a mythical 'Free Market god'.
we are proposing one, you know the post I made that everyone ducked about the State being evil? And challenging all of you to defend them? Yeah we only care about rolling that **** back. The free market is not a myth, it is tried and true.



Quote:
Originally Posted by d2_e4
There seems to be quite a lot that you don't know about. But why spoil it, you'll find out soon enough, it's all part of growing up!

When you're old enough, maybe watch a couple of prison/mob/gang documentaries to see what happens in an "every man for himself" society where only the strongest survive. Now imagine the same but with no cops or guards.
So too much freedom ends up looking like prison? That is quite a combo of indoctrination and fear mongering, the cathedral would be proud.

Every man for himself? Do you even know how the economy functions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by d2_e4
That's exactly what the mafia does now, dipshit. Except, currently, they just extort other criminals who can't go to the cops - in your world, there won't be any cops to contain their activities, so you will either join up with them or you'll be "prey" as Monteroy puts it. You think your piddly little tuppence is going to buy a security company that wants to go against Gotti?

You might think it's all great to **** on the weak and the disabled, but if your wishes come true, you're going to find out that it's not so much fun when the rabbit's got the gun.

Or, let me guess, we can't trust people to be fundamentally good in the current system, but suddenly, when we adopt your system, all the bad people, they just magically disappear by virtue of not having the power of the State any more?
You just quoted me saying "no bad people won't disappear" and then go on to say the bolded. Calm down.

Lets try to simplify where we agree and disagree.

I think we both agree that the free market produces a lot of good things that people want and need. Well I want to apply that system to defense and law.

You guys think going lol but the mafia, i'll just pay off every security firm and judge. You will be at war, a bloody, expensive, unprofitable war. With an armed populace that greatly out numbers you.
Re: libertarianism in the time of covid Quote
06-26-2020 , 07:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
lol Hong Kong was not some super limited govt libertopia.
I was only referring to their gov't wrt to their economy. I wasn't clear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
No, it doesn't? The state doesn't require Democrats and Republicans to agree to decide who owns a piece of land.

And once again, nearly 200 states in the world have significantly smaller militaries than us. You're flailing.
I was making a crack about the 2 party system geez

Quote:
Originally Posted by d2_e4
Don't worry bro, everyone has their own "security company" on retainer for just such an eventuality, ldo.
Hey how's that public security working out in CHAZ? CHOP? You know, the one the residents are forced to pay for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 57 On Red
My late friend Barbara Ellington OBE was the senior Foreign Office official in charge of the British handover of Hong Kong, and I assure you that this description is not correct. Although Hong Kong remains a problem for anti-colonialists, since it was clearly better off under late-twentieth-century British colonial rule than it's ever going to be under Communist rule from Beijing.
Yeah I meant wrt to the economy, nothing else. I wasn't clear about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson
Seasteading huh? ah ok. Libertarianism debunked!
Re: libertarianism in the time of covid Quote
06-26-2020 , 07:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy
They should have tried building a road first.
Only Democrats and Republicans can build private roads remember? Construction 101 dude get with it.
Re: libertarianism in the time of covid Quote
06-26-2020 , 08:15 PM
Quote:
we are proposing one, you know the post I made that everyone ducked about the State being evil? And challenging all of you to defend them? Yeah we only care about rolling that **** back. The free market is not a myth, it is tried and true.
There are such things as markets but when you look to them as the cure for all the ills of mankind you're bound for a let down.
Re: libertarianism in the time of covid Quote
06-26-2020 , 08:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by luckproof
Only Democrats and Republicans can build private roads remember? Construction 101 dude get with it.
I suspect lots of people can build roads, not just party affiliated Americans. Libertarians seem to be ones that cannot.

All the best.
Re: libertarianism in the time of covid Quote
06-26-2020 , 08:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFlushDiamonds
There are such things as markets but when you look to them as the cure for all the ills of mankind you're bound for a let down.
I'm not claiming to have a cure all, just the best option imo.
Re: libertarianism in the time of covid Quote
06-27-2020 , 06:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by luckproof
I'm not claiming to have a cure all, just the best option imo.


But a quick history lesson will show that many of the things you're proposing (gold backed currency, decentralized banking, company run security forces....etc) have already been tried and the current systems were adopted because they weren't as good in the past as you imagine they'll be in the future.
Re: libertarianism in the time of covid Quote
06-27-2020 , 04:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by luckproof
I'm not claiming to have a cure all, just the best option imo.
[ ] games are dead
Re: libertarianism in the time of covid Quote
06-27-2020 , 05:16 PM
Keep failing at defending the State and continuing to demonstrate you have no principles. All of you ducked my post on wether the State was evil or not and you will continue to because you have nothing, and doing so would require you to challenge your religion. Binary political drivel only works on fish.
Re: libertarianism in the time of covid Quote
06-27-2020 , 05:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by luckproof
Keep failing at defending the State and continuing to demonstrate you have no principles. All of you ducked my post on wether the State was evil or not and you will continue to because you have nothing, and doing so would require you to challenge your religion. Binary political drivel only works on fish.
Lol dude, no, everybody is just tired of trying to explain to a child that Santa isn't real.
Re: libertarianism in the time of covid Quote
06-27-2020 , 05:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by luckproof
Keep failing at defending the State and continuing to demonstrate you have no principles. All of you ducked my post on wether the State was evil or not and you will continue to because you have nothing, and doing so would require you to challenge your religion. Binary political drivel only works on fish.
Does your solution include any type of small state with taxation and laws or does it include no such thing?
Re: libertarianism in the time of covid Quote
06-27-2020 , 05:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by luckproof
Keep failing at defending the State and continuing to demonstrate you have no principles. All of you ducked my post on wether the State was evil or not and you will continue to because you have nothing, and doing so would require you to challenge your religion. Binary political drivel only works on fish.
lol, we've been through several points that you eventually just conceded by responding with jokes (or ignored entirely) and now you're all like "yeah you all got NOTHIN" as if we'd just forget.

You've still yet to explain from whence original property rights are derived in a libertarian system. I've seen other libertarians tackle this (I didn't agree with their answers but at least they could try), you're just not even that educated about your own ideology
Re: libertarianism in the time of covid Quote

      
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