re: wet work's posts, even if he's trolling, I also do not know the difference between whatever you're talking about that you've been describing as libertarianism but apparently has no state at all (isn't libertarian small/limited state, not no state?) and anarchocapitalism

How long have you been a reg'd Libertarian out of curiosity?

Isn't the US military is the biggest polluter though? Guess its a wash.

Fair enough but neither advocates no rules.

I would say this about the police and even the park authorities but then you seemed to think it would be better for individuals to use some form of escalating confrontation and social shaming as the mechanism for resolving disputes instead. Why not here as well?

This is a better explanation than I can type out. Comments are worth reading as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTYkdEU_B4o

Is it? I actually didn't know that. In any case we know that "giant military" and "state" are not inseparable from looking at the nearly 200 countries on the planet that have significantly smaller militaries than the USA. Also, not clear that replacing "state military" with "private defense firm" necessarily changes the amount they pollute.

I gather you're referring to Central Park Karen here, but I honestly don't get the connection to what I wrote.

Dude I got sick of these debates in the 80s LOL. I see very little to be gained in entertaining your fairytales. The 'market' has already spoken you just haven't gotten that thru your head yet.

There's two main methods for enabling justice for people who don't have sufficient financial/power of their own. Either we have a state justice system or we work together in some form of social justice systems where we can identify people, follow them about (literally and figuratively) and make their deeds public, call then names etc? Why doesn't this work?

I'd argue it does work to an extent and is sometimes required. It's just far worse than a state based justice system imo where we use the authorities. But I didn't think you agreed.

The thing about libertarianism, AC etc is that it works pretty much to the extent that social justice works. Which can be quite a lot.

A few questions:
1. Do you believe the complete privatization of prisons, and the monetization of human incarceration, is a net improvement (utility positive) over the status quo?

2. How does a stateless society protect children and vulnerable adults from abuse?

3. What is the mechanism for preventing the creation of myriad oligopolies in various sectors (should the market dictate that the most efficient distribution of resources) which ends up suppressing the ability of new business actors to gain entry into fields that, but for these naturally developed barriers, these smaller actors would improve? And what if the sector these talented actors can’t enter is the only thing they’re good at?

I don't think this works against corporations you don't like? There's no shortage of complaints against corporations in our current system. They do little to affect business, save for the vanishingly small percent of complaints that manage to go "viral".

(lol at good little chez editing "Karen" out of his quote)

Firstly, these corporations exist within a state system as well. We can't argue for state justice over social justice by using an example that seems to survive both.

But I'd fundamentally disagree anyway. Corporations are hugely constrained both by state and social pressure. That doesn't imply anywhere near perfect. It's also an ongoing progress.

My turn: Your society has still not built a road.

All the best.

Wow right back to number 1 huh? Pathetic. My society can’t exist now because of coercive monopolies headed by your cult of lunatics.

Ok I’ll go again

The drug war

Good luck!

Then go away?

The markets have spoken? We don’t live in a free market so what are you talking about? I think you might be out of your element here.

Actually, your society will have a hard time existing because you apparently cannot even build a road, despite the lack of cult lunatic based coercive monopolies and various other word salads.

All the best.

So no response? That was easy. You know there are actually private roads in existence today?

Calling things what they are = word salads huh? Typical indoctrinated State-ist response. You are struggling right now in this exchange so how bout ya give up and move on. 3 chances to give me a negative externality of an Ancap society and you said roads roads and roads. When their are already private roads.

Head back to binary thinking political debate where you root for the guy wearing the blue tie and call everything racist. I’m making you think too hard.

Those roads were not built by your utopian society. I mean if your plan is inherit stuff when you form this LOLdream world of yours - ok, I guess, but then you have the issue of maintenance when not everyone wants to do it etc. You literally have yet to explain what you do when a decent chunk of your fellow libertarians tells you to **** off ( as is the libertarian way) when you ask them to build their part of the road.

Word salads are when people jam together all sorts of fun words to really push for their zealot beliefs, and libertarians are just so damn cute in that regard when they do it in a world filled by indoctrinated State-ists Lizard People monopoly coffee cup tennis balls!

All the best.

Luckproof, do you think New Zealand's government is evil?

You keep referring back to USA, but its just one example, and from my point of view they are there to protect the corporations more than the people, so, I'd say its not an example of the state I'd condone. Its more of a corporatist democracy than a state I'd want.

You sound like your arguing for some minimalist state, even if its job is to protect the minimalist state? Or are you arguing for literally no state?

If no state thats fine, but, most liberatarians I've spoken with always want "some" state. Its just the borders of the state.

And if thats the case, its a false equivalency to keep bringing up the USA

Things are much simpler than this
Free speech doesn’t include the right to shout “Fire” in a crowded theatre
Freedom of association does not include the right to spread a potentially deadly virus.
Enforcement of the above requires the use of coercion in some form.

Nothing to add once again.

Listen, we get it, private roads can't be built. Even though they have been, take care.

I don't know anything about NZ, I'm talking about the USA. I think no State would be best but it's not like I wouldn't be happy if I could get a very minimalist one. I just don't know how we would keep it from growing again.

Yes dif Libertarians want dif things, what am I falsely equivocating?

They absolutely were built. Just not by libertarians. Actual road building by libertarians seems to be a big hurdle for some reason, and one could then show how if a road cannot be built then other things would run into a similar fate. No real difference in the end, because LOL libertarians. Anyway, a video for you to enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQiOA7euaYA

All the best.

I like the part in the fairytale when the thugs show up--and then like an after school special you get a free timeout to just send yours over to cancel them out. And well...don't ya see? it just wouldn't happen lol not worth it. Just like that free market magic. There won't be any criminals--plus they're going to be scared of me too I'll have you know. No you're some suburbanite accountant or whatever and this guy has tattoos of the names of his last 50 victims on his nuts for fun. You -think- it will be rainbows but it will be the law of the jungle.

And in reality you get wrecked prior to ever having the chance to respond--if you even happen to have a quality set of gangsters just hanging around--who haven't already eaten you alive

Or let's have a little competition about which group of private cops show up and do the best job Bill the Butcher's guys or the other guys. And then they take turns passing you around after they split up your stuff with the other thugs: while you scream noooo that's not how it works in the youtube video!!! There were supposed to be these courts and stuff! You dumb statists.

Who needs lolroads when you have utopia?