Re: framing the abortion debate - Page 50 - Politics and Society -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

Roe was a decision by a court (so definitionally not a compromise) predicated on a constitutional invention (there is no trace of any abortion right in the federal constitution which is why for 100+ years it was legal for states to regulate abortion) , which set the "compromise" at the highest week amount of any country in the west by a large margin.

that, in a country where the population clearly favors abortion less than in most other western countries (just check all polls on that).

you can get a compromise in the USA but it will probably be 10-12 weeks, that's what polls say.

and that is only if federal regulation of abortion is actually legal which it might not be at all under Dobbs

It's incredible how you manage to be aggressively wrong on nearly every single issue, even with people patiently explaining to you your mistake.

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03-27-2024 , 06:43 PM

#1227

Luciom

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Slighted

oh, the 10,12,15 were supposed to be "moderate" amounts. lol.. that's what confused me.

i sincerely hope republicans try for any ban let alone a 10, 12, or 15 week ban in general elections. that would be the best possible scenario for democrats. bring it front and center.

yes allowing no question asked abortion even for a few weeks saying that's reasonable can already cost you your primary often enough.

but the smart ones know they will have to say that. but later, not now.

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03-27-2024 , 06:45 PM

#1228

Luciom

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Slighted

let's do it. put that 15 week abortion ban in the republican platform in bold print. let's see how this country votes on it. if the national consensus compromise is for something like 10-12 then republicans should obviously be trying to push at least 15.

remember that for many of them it should stay a state issue, and national consensus doesn't mean popular vote, rather purple state consensus (say Pennsylvania, Arizona, Michigan), popular national vote doesn't count in the USA. if 28 m Californians are pro free for all abortion, that weights like 600k people from Montana being against.

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03-27-2024 , 07:14 PM

#1229

Slighted

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Luciom

59.2 to 40.8 in Kansas. 56.8 to 43.2 in OHIO, after they obfuscated the vote as much as possible to go the republicans way. you're the one talking polls, i'm talking votes. abortion is a MASSIVE loser for republicans even in red states. please let them be dumb enough to bring it up in the 2024 cycle.

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03-27-2024 , 07:44 PM

#1230

Luciom

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Slighted

ye maybe you forgot the content of the referendum for Kansas, it went 40% in favour of no right to abortion even in case of rape or incest wtf.

I said the people agreeing with that are 10-15% nationwide, everyone knows that.

so 40% in Kansas means an absolute majority of primary republican voters there want a complete ban no exception, which is why saying 12 weeks can be ok would already be incredible for a republican candidate in Kansas.

now, do you think there are 25, states where the absolute majority of voters are in favor of 24 weeks no question asked abortion? really? because that would be roe

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03-27-2024 , 08:41 PM

#1231

Trolly McTrollson

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Slighted

Do you think we can run reverse psychology on these guys and get them to campaign on banning abortion?

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03-28-2024 , 11:03 AM

#1232

Slighted

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Luciom

the kansas referendum that i cited was going to add this:

Quote:

§ 22. Regulation of abortion. Because Kansans value both women and children, the constitution of the state of Kansas does not require government funding of abortion and does not create or secure a right to abortion. To the extent permitted by the constitution of the United States, the people, through their elected state representatives and state senators, may pass laws regarding abortion, including, but not limited to, laws that account for circumstances of pregnancy resulting from rape or incest, or circumstances of necessity to save the life of the mother.[22]

to their constitution. so 40% wanted to be able to make laws against abortion and 60% said the state constitution does/or should protect the right to abortion.

i think if abortion was front and center and the choice was anything less than the viability standard in roe, then yes i would predict the democrats would have a great cycle. that's one of the reasons the republicans say crazy batshit like post birth abortion because they are trying to distract from the fact that basically no abortions occur after viability anyway.

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04-01-2024 , 06:19 PM

#1233

Slighted

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we might get to test our theories Luciom..

Florida enacting a 6 week ban and there is a "viability" amendment on the ballot for November.

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04-01-2024 , 06:28 PM

#1234

Luciom

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Slighted

we might get to test our theories Luciom..

Florida enacting a 6 week ban and there is a "viability" amendment on the ballot for November.

My theory would be tested if the law allowed for 12-15 weeks and the referendum was for 24.

At it is, it's quite plausible, almost certain I'd say a majority will prefer viability to 6 weeks.

But being Florida they need 60% of the votes to pass it so I don't know if it will pass

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04-09-2024 , 07:17 PM

#1235

steamraise

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plot twist marks a win for abortion rights in Indiana

an extraordinary April 4 appellate court decision in Indiana

The unanimous ruling from the three-judge panel, which found that the state’s
abortion ban burdens the religious beliefs of those whose faiths permit abortions

plaintiffs argued that their religious doctrine teaches that a fetus
is part of a woman’s body, not an independent being with its own rights.
The abortion ban, then, violates their religious freedom to decide whether to have an abortion

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-...bby-rcna146844

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