I'll have to look into that.

As far as I can tell human females have as much maternal instinct as other animals. I know male lions will kill cubs to put the female back into heat but they do that at their own peril. (random example)

But individual survival would trump survival of another even in the same tribe so, it's logical that children might be killed in extreme circumstances. But as a norm ? It seems to run counter to nature.

What do you mean by Roe being overturned? No balancing test? Changing the medical line? Finding no right to privacy in the Constitution via strict constructionism?

No, because the voter approved referendum law still may be unconstitutional and unreasonably infringe on a protected right. Same reason why a voter referendum to limit guns won’t pass the same test.

Lag, explain the law you would support in banning all abortions with your three exceptions.

I will discuss that excellent point AFTER we've sufficiently discussed the "non-exception" cases.

One step at a time.

That's a lot to cover!

I will tackle those points early this week.

I have to re-locate again soon (for the fourth time since late February), so I will address each point soon.

Stay well!

It just staggering that you lagtag didn’t really bother about how bad it is to permit a country, states or city to have laws that take control of its private citizens body , in this case woman under the pretense of saving life , which is arbitrary !
I just wonder if you hear yourself and realize what you adhere to ...

What will you do if someday a woman president would vote some law under other pretense to take control of your body lagtag ?
You think it only work 1 way , which is only your way ?
Good luck with that !

But it’s true , some do advocate totalitarian states to be a good place to live in I supposed .
Incredible these kinds of thoughts could be acceptable in the United-States , the «land of the free» ?
Free ?
Yeah right !!

Ps: of course your against assisted dying laws , even for terminal patient under severe pain and under drugs right ?
Well hey it is easy for you since you are not the one suffering for , again, an ideology , religion or w.e that is personal to you !

Time for some SCIENCE!

The following quote is from a book titled, BEFORE WE ARE BORN: ESSENTIALS OF EMBRYOLOGY AND BIRTH DEFECTS (8th edition),
by Drs. Keith L. Moore, T.V.N. Persaud, and Mark G. Torchia.

From the section, "Introduction to Human Embryology":

"Human development begins when an oocyte (ovum) from a female is fertilized by a sperm (spermatozoon) from a male. Development involves many changes that transform a single cell, the zygote (fertilized ovum) into a multicellular human being. Embryology is concerned with the origin and development of a human being from a zygote to birth."

(Emphasis added)

So, a zygote is technically a "human being" according to the SCIENCE of Embryology.

That's not necessarily an accurate interpretation of that grammatical construct. For example, the sentence fragment "..the evolution of mammals from single-celled organisms..." does not imply that single-celled organisms are mammals.

Note the descriptors. Single cell organism is called zygote. Multicellular organism is called human being.

So what is the deal here anyway ?
The sperm are also alive and have the potential to become multicellular human beings.

Why draw the line at conception instead of 12 weeks ?

You conflict “potential” to “actual”.
And that is why terms are different .

Like I said , if an embryo is human like us , why don’t you name it at that time ?
Ho yes right ..., it got no genitals....

Why don’t you ask to an embryo if his human ?

And again lagtag, how can you consider living in a free country when you permit laws that take control of the body of its citizen ?

You say it’s ok because you think saving life’s is a good reason but than again I don’t see the United States to be afraid to go to war for many other reasons that cost life !

But the real problem is someone else might find any other good reasons to pass other laws that could control you because subjectivity can be used for any causes .

How about laws that would cut any “manhood” to all man that be condemn for sexual crimes huh ?
Ps: hopefully I wish you wouldn’t be falsely accused one day .

Like I said you can be in favor for everything you like , but just don’t impose it on others.
That’s what democracy is all about .....
Unless a consensus is reach by a strong majority, because that actually how democracy works and evolves , laws that permit intrusion in the private life of its citizen shouldn’t be allowed .

If you want a totalitarian state , there are plenty Of them in existences in the world for you.

Ps: the responsibility of a government is too help cohesion of society by making laws that help to reach certain agreements on how citizens should interact socially , in the public sphere , not in their bedroom or private life ....

This is the ridiculous aspect of a strict anti-abortion-rights position like lagtight holds. An instant before, they're just a few cells like any other in the human body. Not crucial to life or health. Not "human". Not "sacred". No one cares if you throw them away. An instant later, they are the same microscopic sacs of cytoplasm and organelles, simply with one cell entered into another. But now, as of that instant, a group of people will scream about throwing women in prison for murdering babies if they discard that single combined cell.

On that note, I keep trying to ascertain ITT whether jacking off is murder, and I can't seem to get a straight answer.

lagtight, if you could clarify where various non-procreational sexual activities fall on the homicide spectrum, that would be very helpful. I'm getting a little concerned about the whole "eternal damnation of the soul" thing now.

Many people I know name their unborn child right after they learn its gender.

Masturbating is not murder.

No sexual activities are homicidal that I know of.

As well you should!

"Do not use your human body to kill another human body."

I am basically a pacifist. Which is one reason I dislike our two major parties.

"Do not use your human body to kill another human body."

Question too vague. Please be more specific.

I don't get the "strong majority" part. Plus, the U.S. is NOT a democracy.

I oppose all forms of totalitarianism.

"Do not use your human body to kill another human body."

Spoken like a man who's never tried it on a heavy hangover.

Dunno man... every time you f**k me in a chess game, I feel like I die a little inside.

Just keeping telling yourself, "It's only a game.....it's only a game...."

Neither is abortion.

But you're talking about a moral code and we're asking you why you draw the line where you do as it seems random.

What are your parameters ?

Also, masturbation is a mortal. So......

Exactly !
And how many week/month in the pregnancy that is ?
Is it called an embryo or a baby at that point ?
Thx .....

But then again you approve the government to intervene deeply in the private life of its citizens to fit your beliefs/morality on others...


I don’t understand why you bring this when I talk about law that permit Government to take control of your body ....

You are very naive if you think only YOUR values should be respected ,
about agreeing saving life ,
permits totalitarian laws but OTHERS having other valueS ,
couldnt take the same argument as yours,
justifying other kinds of “morality subjectively “ and pass other kind laws to control your body .
Very naive that AGAIN you think you are right and others are wrong and think only YOURS thinking is correct and so only laws that fits your beliefs is permitted by state laws .

That ain’t freedom .

Ps: if the united stated ain’t a democracy than what is it ?
Enlighten me .