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Re: framing the abortion debate

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02-15-2020 , 12:32 AM

#51

Max Cut

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Here you go, lagtight, if you want to update your vernacular as a sign of good faith.

abortion-rights advocate
abortion-rights opponent

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02-15-2020 , 12:41 AM

#52

Luckbox Inc

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Max Cut

There's only gray area for those engaging in bad-faith argumentation.

My question was about when babies ended though. Now fortunately CN provided that definition.
What you did was cut off that part of my post and made it seem like I was talking about when they begin and didn't provide the definition for when they ended.
That is some bad faith ****.

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02-15-2020 , 12:42 AM

#53

Max Cut

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Nah, I cut out the obvious trolling. The last thing we need is you derailing lagtight's important zealot derail. Your welcome, forum.

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02-15-2020 , 01:02 AM

#54

lagtight

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Max Cut

Here you go, lagtight, if you want to update your vernacular as a sign of good faith.

abortion-rights advocate
abortion-rights opponent

You can use any terminology you want. I can use any terminology I want.

Having said that, I don't find your terms objectionable. I might use them on occasion.

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02-15-2020 , 01:35 PM

#55

lagtight

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Max Cut

There's only gray area for those engaging in bad-faith argumentation.

baby
a very young child, especially one newly or recently born.

fetus
an unborn offspring of a mammal, in particular an unborn human baby more than eight weeks after conception.

embryo
an unborn or unhatched offspring in the process of development, in particular a human offspring during the period from approximately the second to the eighth week after fertilization (after which it is usually termed a fetus).

One of the definitions for baby on Dictionary.com is "a human fetus."

Here is a quote from Webmd.com. It is from the introduction to a slideshow for expectant mothers showing the different stages of development in the womb:

"You're pregnant. Congratulations! Are you curious how big your developing baby is, what your baby looks like as it grows inside you....Take a peek inside the womb to see how a baby develops from month to month..." [ Emphasis added]

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02-15-2020 , 01:41 PM

#56

Luckbox Inc

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Lagtight,
Those are just colloquial usages; they aren't scientific terms. Babies breathe air and don't walk but not because they are in wheelchair but because they are not yet toddling.
Colloquial usgaes don't matter, only scientific usages. If you use terms colloquially that can be hurtful.

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02-15-2020 , 01:42 PM

#57

uke_master

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Can we maybe not have a terminology debate around abortion with a young earth creationist?

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02-15-2020 , 01:49 PM

#58

Max Cut

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Good-faith lagtight again striving to bend definitions to his will rather that either use accepted definitions or say what he actually means using a sentence.

Nope, has to be the word baby because of the false connotation that would be associated with it, meaning the common definition used. Has to be murdering babies or killing babies. Has to be pro-abortion despite the false implication that advocates want more abortions rather than they simply the allow women the freedom to decide. Has to be pro-life, well until the fetus is actually born.

****ing bullshit artist. Wonder where he learned that.

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02-15-2020 , 01:50 PM

#59

lagtight

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Quote:

Originally Posted by uke_master

Can we maybe not have a terminology debate around abortion with a young earth creationist?

Sorry to pollute the discussion with quotes from Young Earth Creationist websites like Dictionary.com and Webmd.com.

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02-15-2020 , 01:53 PM

#60

lagtight

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Max Cut

Good-faith lagtight again striving to bend definitions to his will rather that either use accepted definitions or say what he actually means using a sentence.

Nope, has to be the word baby because of the false connotation that would be associated with it, meaning the common definition used. Has to be murdering babies or killing babies. Has to be pro-abortion despite the false implication that advocates want more abortions rather than they simply the allow women the freedom to decide.

****ing bullshit artist. Wonder where he learned that.

Good point. Dictionary.com and Webmd.com are "bending definitions".

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02-15-2020 , 01:54 PM

#61

Luckbox Inc

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Quote:

Originally Posted by lagtight

Sorry to pollute the discussion with quotes from Young Earth Creationist websites like Dictionary.com and Webmd.com.

It doesn't matter where the quotes come from. It's about who is arguing them.

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02-15-2020 , 01:57 PM

#62

Max Cut

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Quote:

Originally Posted by uke_master

Can we maybe not have a terminology debate around abortion with a young earth creationist?

signed

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02-15-2020 , 01:57 PM

#63

lagtight

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

Dictionary.com and Webmd.com are hurtful.

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02-15-2020 , 01:58 PM

#64

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Originally Posted by uke_master

Can we maybe not have a terminology debate around abortion with a young earth creationist?

I think it's happening though.

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02-15-2020 , 01:59 PM

#65

Luckbox Inc

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Quote:

Originally Posted by lagtight

Dictionary.com and Webmd.com are hurtful.

They are when you use terms out-of-context.
You can call a kid in the womb (kids are baby goats so it's ok) a baby if the woman is intending to have it. But if she isn't then it's a fetus. You see?
It's just semantics.
Like "let's check-up on that baby in there" vs "the procedure will only last a few minutes and you'll be fetus free after that".
I have a baby (an actual scientific baby) sleeping on my shoulder right now.

They aren't too bad.

Last edited by Luckbox Inc; 02-15-2020 at 02:06 PM.

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02-15-2020 , 02:01 PM

#66

Max Cut

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Quote:

Originally Posted by lagtight

Dictionary.com and Webmd.com are hurtful.

Dishonestly trying to feel justified for "murdering babies" rhetoric.

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02-15-2020 , 02:01 PM

#67

lagtight

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

Got it! Thanks!

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02-15-2020 , 02:02 PM

#68

lagtight

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Max Cut

Dishonestly trying to feel justified for "murdering babies" rhetoric.

How so?

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02-15-2020 , 02:03 PM

#69

Max Cut

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

Shallow and idiotic. The context is he's talking about murdering babies. But hurr durr everyone look at me I have to interject at every possibility with a stupid contrarian take.

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02-15-2020 , 02:07 PM

#70

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Max Cut

Shallow and idiotic. The context is he's talking about murdering babies. But hurr durr everyone look at me I have to interject at every possibility with a stupid contrarian take.

Exactly and I'm saying you don't murder babies you murder fetuses. Babies get checked up on.

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02-15-2020 , 03:03 PM

#71

well named

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So, I moved this to its own thread and deleted the last little bit of completely useless posting. If the thread continues along similar lines as what I just deleted then it will be locked pretty shortly, but if you want to argue about abortion (either substantively or about the way the debate gets framed, what terms get used, etc.) then feel free.

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02-15-2020 , 03:06 PM

#72

Luckbox Inc

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Well if it wasn't about semantics before, the new thread title makes it official. And I

semantics.

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02-15-2020 , 03:29 PM

#73

Kelhus999

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Well, one thing I do find interesting on this topic is that AFAIK the federal government and most states have laws saying that if you kill an unborn "fetus" at any stage of development while committing a crime it is murder.

I don't see any giant movement in the government or the populace to modify these laws. So it certainly seems the government, and most of the governed, believe that fetuses are alive when it is convenient to believe so, and believe they aren't when it is inconvenient.

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02-15-2020 , 03:41 PM

#74

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Originally Posted by Kelhus999

So it certainly seems the government, and most of the governed, believe that fetuses are alive when it is convenient to believe so, and believe they aren't when it is inconvenient.

Governemnt is just as hypocritical as everyone else, only moreso.
But you're getting at what I was saying earlier about it being a baby if the woman intends on having it, and not a baby if she doesn't. Max called that "shallow and idiotic" and I wonder if he could elaborate on that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by well named

If the thread continues along similar lines as what I just deleted then it will be locked pretty shortly,.

Probably should just lock it now. None of them can hang in a semantics discussion and it might get ugly.

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02-15-2020 , 03:48 PM

#75

lozen

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I am Pro Choice but would be fine on no abortions after the first or second term unless the mothers health in jeopardy or if a major health issue is determined with the fetus. Sadly there never will be any compromise

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