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Old 05-12-2020, 12:54 PM   #676
Luckbox Inc
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Re: framing the abortion debate

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The thread title is literally "framing the abortion debate" and you are claiming that objecting to framing abortion as "murdering babies" is a nittery and alternative formulations differ only in technicality?
If the only question is between "murdering babies" vs "surgically removing fetuses" (or whatever) then yeah--it's nittery. There isn't a reason to caught up on the terminology.

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I am not really following this thread. Just popped in because I haven't seen you posting in a while and you had the last post.
Had a little mini-vacation for birdwatching in northern Ohio.
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Old 05-12-2020, 02:34 PM   #677
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Re: framing the abortion debate

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See 267 - just before luckboxs second and third attempt to educate us about marsupial sex. Or just admit you donít feel a woman has the any reproductive rights after becoming pregnant.
For me to best answer your question, it might be helpful for you to define "reproductive rights" for me.

What is the origin of this alleged "right"? Can this "right" ever be superceded by someone else's rights?

I can say that, in my opinion, a woman ought not to have an UNIVOCAL RIGHT to terminate her pregnancy.
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Old 05-12-2020, 03:08 PM   #678
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Re: framing the abortion debate

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For me to best answer your question, it might be helpful for you to define "reproductive rights" for me.

What is the origin of this alleged "right"? Can this "right" ever be superceded by someone else's rights?

I can say that, in my opinion, a woman ought not to have an UNIVOCAL RIGHT to terminate her pregnancy.
I believe they are part of the penumbra “right to privacy” concept from interpretation by the SC opinions over the years but I am rusty on my Constitutional law. Usually when two rights conflict, a balancing test is developed to determine which right supersedes the other.

Reproductive rights would be the right to engage in sex in and out of marriage for procreation and for pleasure, use or not use birth control and what kind and decide to terminate a pregnancy.

Do you mean unequivocal right? What about the the other parts of reproductive rights do you think they should not have an unequivocal choice?
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Old 05-12-2020, 03:13 PM   #679
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Re: framing the abortion debate

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Had a little mini-vacation for birdwatching in northern Ohio.
Did you see the giant looney bird by Lake Erie that was in the msm?
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Old 05-12-2020, 04:26 PM   #680
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Re: framing the abortion debate

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Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc View Post
If the only question is between "murdering babies" vs "surgically removing fetuses" (or whatever) then yeah--it's nittery. There isn't a reason to caught up on the terminology.
There is when people like lagtight characterise the opposite position as "in favour of murdering babies", and make the debate about the morality of "baby murder."
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Old 05-12-2020, 04:54 PM   #681
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Re: framing the abortion debate

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I can say that, in my opinion, a woman ought not to have an UNIVOCAL RIGHT to terminate her pregnancy.
You're confusing me a bit. Sounded like you would give me a univocal right to switch my baby making machine off. Did I misunderstand?
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Old 05-12-2020, 05:59 PM   #682
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Re: framing the abortion debate

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According to dictionary dot com, a fetus can be referred to as a baby.

So, there is no problem, in my opinion.

Baby and fetus arent "value terms." Fetuses are a subset of babies.
All laws, by their nature, are "imposing a view". Laws allowing unborn humans to be killed in the womb are "imposing a view" on unborn humans.

Keeping abortionists as far away as possible from unborn babies is an even better thing, in my opinion.
Basic question .
Is there any period in the pregnancy that an abortion is ok ?
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Old 05-12-2020, 06:01 PM   #683
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Re: framing the abortion debate

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Yes there are living cells in snot.
Living cells and life are two different things though. How hard is that to grasp? Blood contains living cells. That doesn't make it a living organism. That only comes from the ability to reproduce. An amoeba is life. Some bacteria in snot is life. Snot is not life.
Is a virus life ?
It can even reproduce ...
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Old 05-12-2020, 06:17 PM   #684
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Re: framing the abortion debate

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Is a virus life ?

It can even reproduce ...
It would seen so. There isn't a consensus on what defines life but reproductive ability would seem to be one of the main requirements.
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Old 05-12-2020, 06:48 PM   #685
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Re: framing the abortion debate

There is a consensus and no , it’s not alive .
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Old 05-14-2020, 10:10 AM   #686
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Re: framing the abortion debate

If men really cared about stopping abortion they would immediately enact laws requiring mandatory vasectomies for males once they hit puberty, to be reversed when they are ready to intentionally procreate with a partner.

Quit playing yourselves.
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Old 05-14-2020, 10:14 AM   #687
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Re: framing the abortion debate

And if any man impregnates a woman who doesn’t intend to carry the fetus to term then that man should be charged with a crime. Amirite?
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Old 05-14-2020, 10:21 AM   #688
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Re: framing the abortion debate

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And if any man impregnates a woman who doesnít intend to carry the fetus to term then that man should be charged with a crime. Amirite?
So your solution is to legislation that would vastly disproportionately negatively effect young men of color? Interesting.
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Old 05-14-2020, 10:53 AM   #689
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Re: framing the abortion debate

Nobody will be negatively affected by reversible vasectomies. It will just become a routine aspect of life for boys when they reach sexual maturity. Since the procedure is for men it will LDO be totally covered by both private and subsidized government insurance.
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Old 05-14-2020, 11:22 AM   #690
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Re: framing the abortion debate

So you think the right to intentionally procreate would be evenly applied to all member of society? And penalties for abusing this right would also be evenly applied?

Oh you sweet summer child.

With the decriminalization of drug laws, if nothing else Crossnerd's proposal would provide a creative new avenue for the for profit prison system to refill its ranks, disproportionately with young black men of color.

-Touching on something WN brought up in the LC thread, if nothing else Crossnerd's legislative proposals demonstrate how problematic it is to broad brush using "male" and "female" as social locations, as she is wont to do.
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Old 05-14-2020, 01:15 PM   #691
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Re: framing the abortion debate

I’m just trying to save as many lives as possible! It seems clear from a logical standpoint that the easiest and best way to achieve that goal, if that’s really the goal, is with mandatory vasectomies for men. It’s reversible and safe and superior mathematically since each woman can only produce one pregnancy per year but each man is capable of producing hundreds, and vasectomies have a better success rate as a form of birth control. I don’t see what the issue is. Everyone has to do it, and you can only have it reversed when a woman formally agrees to carry a pregnancy with you.

Any doctor who performs a reversal without a woman agreeing to carry a pregnancy has committed a crime. Unwanted pregnancies kill millions of women and unborn cell blobs every year.

What? What’s the problem?
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Old 05-14-2020, 01:37 PM   #692
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Re: framing the abortion debate

What if she changes her mind after she signs the paperwork and the guy gets the reversal? Do we send the poor bastard back?
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Old 05-14-2020, 01:53 PM   #693
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Re: framing the abortion debate

Reversal is stupid. Just get some sperm and do it artificially. Bigger problem is the consequent rise in STDs as condom use losses attraction for irresponsible men.

As I've said to crossnerd before, the only solution is to cut off their goolies.
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Old 05-14-2020, 02:03 PM   #694
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Re: framing the abortion debate

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Old 05-14-2020, 02:06 PM   #695
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Re: framing the abortion debate

not so keen on the 'snap'
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Old 05-14-2020, 02:35 PM   #696
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Re: framing the abortion debate

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Originally Posted by Crossnerd View Post
Iím just trying to save as many lives as possible! It seems clear from a logical standpoint that the easiest and best way to achieve that goal, if thatís really the goal, is with mandatory vasectomies for men. Itís reversible and safe and superior mathematically since each woman can only produce one pregnancy per year but each man is capable of producing hundreds, and vasectomies have a better success rate as a form of birth control. I donít see what the issue is. Everyone has to do it, and you can only have it reversed when a woman formally agrees to carry a pregnancy with you.

Any doctor who performs a reversal without a woman agreeing to carry a pregnancy has committed a crime. Unwanted pregnancies kill millions of women and unborn cell blobs every year.

What? Whatís the problem?
Can I suggest like a 10 day waiting/cooling off period from the time the lady signs and when the reversal is done? That way we wont have all the dudes spending the rest of their days in an out of hospitals.
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Old 05-14-2020, 03:13 PM   #697
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Re: framing the abortion debate

Re mandatory vasectomies:
It would be between maximizing humans vs preventing deaths. If the goal is the former then mandatory vasectomies would obviously be a bad idea. It's the same sort of idea that can justify meat-eating. If we didn't eat those cows there would be a lot less of them.
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Old 05-14-2020, 03:27 PM   #698
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Re: framing the abortion debate

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So your solution is to legislation that would vastly disproportionately negatively effect young men of color? Interesting.
Here's where kel completely ignores the obvious points the hypothetical illustrates because he is incapable of discussing things in good faith and instead goes straight to a strawman deflection. Then puts his ass hole calling card signature on it, interesting.
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Old 05-15-2020, 05:20 AM   #699
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Re: framing the abortion debate

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Basic question .

Is there any period in the pregnancy that an abortion is ok ?
In my opinion, there is no period during the pregnancy where abortion is an absolute right.
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Old 05-15-2020, 05:27 AM   #700
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Re: framing the abortion debate

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Originally Posted by Crossnerd View Post
If men and women really cared about stopping abortion they would immediately enact laws requiring mandatory vasectomies for males once they hit puberty, to be reversed when they are ready to intentionally procreate with a partner.

Quit playing yourselves.
FYP
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