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Old 05-12-2020, 08:56 AM   #651
Luckbox Inc
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Re: framing the abortion debate

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So every time you jack off you're a murderer, right?
Maybe. I enjoy the fact that there are 'killer attack sperm' dedicated to finding sperm from other males and to killing them. So those guys are already pretty vicious but you might be right.
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Old 05-12-2020, 08:57 AM   #652
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Re: framing the abortion debate

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You are the one who brought up snot. Why can't you discuss things like a rational person Max? Do you still think snot is life or do you concede that your analogy was bad?
There are living cells in snot. The stupidly obvious point is you don't give a **** about a few cells dying. How many more of these stupid derail posts until you ejaculate? Not kink shaming, but it is disruptive trolling to the rest of us.
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Old 05-12-2020, 08:58 AM   #653
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Re: framing the abortion debate

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There are living cells in snot. The stupidly obvious point is you don't give a **** about a few cells dying. How many more of these stupid derail posts until you murder millions of unborn babies?
FYP.
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Old 05-12-2020, 08:58 AM   #654
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Re: framing the abortion debate

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There are living cells in snot. The stupidly obvious point is you don't give a **** about a few cells dying. How many more of these stupid derail posts until you ejaculate?
Yes there are living cells in snot.
Living cells and life are two different things though. How hard is that to grasp? Blood contains living cells. That doesn't make it a living organism. That only comes from the ability to reproduce. An amoeba is life. Some bacteria in snot is life. Snot is not life.
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Old 05-12-2020, 09:04 AM   #655
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Re: framing the abortion debate

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Living cells and life are two different things though. How hard is that to grasp? Blood contains living cells. That doesn't make it a living organism.
Yeah, no ****, Sherlock. Apparently, it's really really really really really really really difficult to grasp for people that are against abortion rights. That is, if you believe their arguments are done in good faith.
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Old 05-12-2020, 09:07 AM   #656
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Re: framing the abortion debate

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Yeah, no ****, Sherlock. Apparently, it's really really really really really really really difficult to grasp for people that are against abortion rights. That is, if you believe their arguments are done in good faith.
What? I'm explaining the concept to you. I understand it all just fine. Are you trolling here? You're the one who claimed that everyone would agree that snot is life.
Perhaps this will help some as we work on a definition.

From wiki:
There is currently no consensus regarding the definition of life. One popular definition is that organisms are open systems that maintain homeostasis, are composed of cells, have a life cycle, undergo metabolism, can grow, adapt to their environment, respond to stimuli, reproduce and evolve.

Last edited by Luckbox Inc; 05-12-2020 at 09:13 AM.
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Old 05-12-2020, 09:21 AM   #657
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Re: framing the abortion debate

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You're the one who claimed that everyone would agree that snot is life.
More dishonesty; lying by omission. I said "To keep perspective, which you try to distort here, pretty much everyone would agree the snot you blow out your nose is life" by the definition you were using.

I mean, like, I don't want an abortion thread or discussion about abortion, so this is ****ing god's work here by you. Carry on.

It's really the simplest concept, and you agree with it, but yet you churn out post after post after post littering the thread with sub-debates about it. A clump of cells is life. No wait, living cells are not life. No wait... no wait... LOL

We are talking about the clump of living cells removed by standard legal early-term abortion. Have at it, Captain Lingo!
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Old 05-12-2020, 09:26 AM   #658
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Re: framing the abortion debate

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Not a biologist but I'm also not stupid so I think a good starting point for a definition of life is cells or groups of cells that have the ability to replicate themselves. Snot and fingernails do not have that ability. Fetuses and joeys do.
So assuming it does produce real live human babies, at what point will you object to me switching off my machine?

I appreciate it can sound like an odd approach but we've removed the women's rights issue and all the natural process type arguments. It still about life and when it's okay to terminate the process.
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Old 05-12-2020, 09:27 AM   #659
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Re: framing the abortion debate

Reading this thread makes me think it would have been for the best if Mitochondrial Eve had an abortion.
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Old 05-12-2020, 09:35 AM   #660
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Re: framing the abortion debate

Couldn't, she wasn't abel.

Or some similar, better formulated, joke.
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Old 05-12-2020, 09:48 AM   #661
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Re: framing the abortion debate

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I think it's clear to you what I am saying. You choose to continue using contextually non-standard words that may be definitionally correct. It is a bad-faith form of deception you allow yourself to use because it favors your position.
There is no deception at all on my part.

I am using no words in a deceptive way.

A common phrase is for a woman to be "carrying a baby" or "pregnant with child."

have you EVER heard a woman say "im carrying a fetus?"
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Old 05-12-2020, 09:59 AM   #662
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Re: framing the abortion debate

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Yeah, no ****, Sherlock. Apparently, it's really really really really really really really difficult to grasp for people that are against abortion rights. That is, if you believe their arguments are done in good faith.
It's really really really really really really really difficult to fathom how Max can get so riled up at people trying to save the lives of unborn children.
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Old 05-12-2020, 10:15 AM   #663
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Re: framing the abortion debate

Lag, are you ever going to address my prior questions?
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Old 05-12-2020, 10:17 AM   #664
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Re: framing the abortion debate

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So assuming it does produce real live human babies, at what point will you object to me switching off my machine?

I appreciate it can sound like an odd approach but we've removed the women's rights issue and all the natural process type arguments. It still about life and when it's okay to terminate the process.
I don't know. It's an interesting hypothetical but it probably wouldn't be my place to object. It's your machine after all. And I'm not going to object to women having abortions either.
My only claims in this thread are that viability isn't a logical standard with which to base the worthiness of human life, and that life can in fact just be a clump of cells (or single celled of course). Beyond that I'll leave to others.
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Old 05-12-2020, 10:23 AM   #665
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Re: framing the abortion debate

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Reading this thread makes me think it would have been for the best if Mitochondrial Eve had an abortion.
I'm so pro-life that I'm even happy that Max wasn't aborted.

Edit: i actually like Max. He is a straight shooter who pulls no punches. (Sorry for the mixed metaphor).
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Old 05-12-2020, 10:25 AM   #666
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Re: framing the abortion debate

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Lag, are you ever going to address my prior questions?
Sorry, which questions?

Please provide the post #.

Thanks.
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Old 05-12-2020, 10:54 AM   #667
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Re: framing the abortion debate

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Living cells and life are two different things though..
Exactly.

The cluster of cells that I saw was definitely not life.
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Old 05-12-2020, 11:10 AM   #668
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Re: framing the abortion debate

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It's really really really really really really really difficult to fathom how Max can get so riled up at people trying to save the lives of unborn children.
It is scientifically disingenuous and society's resources would be much better spent elsewhere. For example, on trying to save/enrich actual born children.
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Old 05-12-2020, 11:15 AM   #669
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Re: framing the abortion debate

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There is no deception at all on my part.

I am using no words in a deceptive way.

A common phrase is for a woman to be "carrying a baby" or "pregnant with child."

have you EVER heard a woman say "im carrying a fetus?"
Have you ever heard anyone getting liposuction say "I'm going to murder my fat"?

Do you hear people using the term murder in debates about liposuction?
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Old 05-12-2020, 11:17 AM   #670
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Re: framing the abortion debate

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Have you ever heard anyone getting liposuction say "I'm going to murder my fat"?

Do you hear people using the term murder in debates about liposuction?
Seems like totally honest discourse.
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Old 05-12-2020, 11:18 AM   #671
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Re: framing the abortion debate

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Seems like totally honest discourse.
It's not and that's my point.

What does this point have to do with viability as a standard, because you said "Beyond that I'll leave to others."
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Old 05-12-2020, 12:15 PM   #672
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Re: framing the abortion debate

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It's not and that's my point.



What does this point have to do with viability as a standard, because you said "Beyond that I'll leave to others."
When someone says "I'm going to murder my fat" they are using murder metaphorically.
When someone says "let's check up on your baby with ultrasound"--then that's something more akin to semantic drift. Although I'd bet that baby came first and fetus is a relatively modern term--but that is without researching. I know I've heard in Japanese "aka chan dekita"--which translated literally means something like "I achieved baby" but that really just means "I'm pregnant". Ultimately the point that lagtight is making is that the distinction between baby and fetus is a techincal one and you insist on nitting up the thread by claiming there is a difference. It doesn't seem too important though.

Last edited by Luckbox Inc; 05-12-2020 at 12:28 PM.
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Old 05-12-2020, 12:30 PM   #673
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Re: framing the abortion debate

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When someone says "I'm going to murder my fat" they are using murder metaphorically.
When someone says "let's check up on your baby with ultrasound"--then that's something more akin to semantic drift. Although I'd bet that baby came first and fetus is a relatively modern term--but that is without researching. I know I've heard in Japanese "aka chan dekita"--which translated literally means something like "I achieved baby" but that really just means "I'm pregnant". Ultimately the point that lagtight is making is that the distinction between baby and fetus is a techincal one and you insist on nitting up the thread by claiming there is a difference. It doesn't seem too important though.
The thread title is literally "framing the abortion debate" and you are claiming that objecting to framing abortion as "murdering babies" is a nittery and alternative formulations differ only in technicality?
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Old 05-12-2020, 12:31 PM   #674
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Re: framing the abortion debate

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When someone says "I'm going to murder my fat" they are using murder metaphorically.
When someone says "let's check up on your baby with ultrasound"--then that's something more akin to semantic drift.
I am not really following this thread. Just popped in because I haven't seen you posting in a while and you had the last post. Anyways, on this topic in the progressive pro-choice state I live in when my wife was pregnant we had an ultrasound very early, and I was actually a little surprised that the ultrasound tech, nurse and OB all used the term "baby." I actually assumed they had been trained to use more neutral terms, especially that early (I don't remember the exact timing, but it was under 10 weeks).

I am actually a little curious whether there is any guidelines on this. My assumption is there would be, but my anecdotal experience doesn't support there is.

Maybe what the nurses/techs/doctors do is read the room, and if it is clear to them the "developing life form with its own unique DNA that may or not be human life" is desired they use the term baby, but if it isn't clear they use a more neutral term?
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Old 05-12-2020, 12:38 PM   #675
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Re: framing the abortion debate

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Sorry, which questions?

Please provide the post #.

Thanks.
See 267 - just before luckboxs second and third attempt to educate us about marsupial sex. Or just admit you don’t feel a woman has the any reproductive rights after becoming pregnant.
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