Re: framing the abortion debate - Page 24 - Politics and Society -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

I think you're right, it isn't logic. Not sure what to call it.

Seems at least odd (to me) to find "kids in cages" worse than "mother can kill her baby, AS A RIGHT"

Do you support women who choose to go on birth control and decide to have lots of sex?

Quote

05-04-2020 , 02:05 PM

#577

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by formula72

Do you support women who choose to go on birth control and decide to have lots of sex?

I support the woman's right to use birth control and have sex all she wants.

Quote

05-04-2020 , 02:11 PM

#578

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

Well, the alternative to kids in cages is s kids not in cages, going about their lives and doing the best they can, which is good! The alternative to abortion is that women have to cede their liberty and control of their own bodies to the federal government, which is pretty terrible.

Quote

05-04-2020 , 02:17 PM

#579

formula72

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 4,318

Quote:

Originally Posted by lagtight

I support the woman's right to use birth control and have sex all she wants.

why?

Quote

05-04-2020 , 02:22 PM

#580

Max Cut

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by lagtight

I think you're right, it isn't logic. Not sure what to call it.

Seems at least odd (to me) to find "kids in cages" worse than "mother can kill her baby, AS A RIGHT"

I mean if we are going to play the framing game and ignore terminology and definitions, then I'll ask why are you in favor of killing mothers?

Quote

05-04-2020 , 02:28 PM

#581

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWookie

The alternative to killing an unborn baby is to NOT kill an unborn baby.

Since I have (perhaps incorrectly) profiled you as a liberal/leftist/progressive, you don't have a problem with the federal government telling people what to do on a lot of things.

I think as a rule the government should leave people alone except to enforce laws dealing with the inflicting of bodily harm to others.

Ironically, it seems to me that ONLY a libertarian could use your argument.

Quote

05-04-2020 , 02:30 PM

#582

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

Pregnancy is bodily harm to the woman.

And the libertarian appeals is not the reason I object to abortion restrictions, but making the argument on your terms is more likely to be effective.

Quote

05-04-2020 , 02:30 PM

#583

Max Cut

Guest

Posts: n/a

Only an irrational religious zealot could use yours, lagtight.

Quote

05-04-2020 , 02:31 PM

#584

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max Cut

I mean if we are going to play the framing game and ignore terminology and definitions, then I'll ask why are you in favor of killing mothers?

I'm not in favor of killing mothers. Since you're fine with killing unborn babies, why shouldn't you be fine with killing mothers?

I dont think we should kill ANYBODY!

Quote

05-04-2020 , 02:32 PM

#585

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by formula72

why?

I try to adhere to the NAP.

Quote

05-04-2020 , 02:35 PM

#586

Max Cut

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by lagtight

I'm not in favor of killing mothers. Since you're fine with killing unborn babies, why shouldn't you be fine with killing mothers?

I dont think we should kill ANYBODY!

I'm not in favor of killing babies. It's something you made up. I favor life and freedom and equal rights. You favor patriarchy and misogynistic religiosity, and use deceptive language to defend it. Oh, and you favor killing mothers or some other bad thing I can't think of to make up for this silly game right now.

Quote

05-04-2020 , 02:38 PM

#587

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWookie

Pregnancy is bodily harm to the woman.

And the libertarian appeals is not the reason I object to abortion restrictions, but making the argument on your terms is more likely to be effective.

Pregnancy is bodily harm BY CHOICE.

If a woman becomes pregnant AGAINST HER WILL, then one can make a strong legal case for abortion in that type of situation.

Abortion also can endanger the mother, and can often make later childbirth more difficult.

Also, many women have lifelong emotional scars from killing their unborn baby.

Quote

05-04-2020 , 02:40 PM

#588

Max Cut

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by lagtight

So it's about controlling women's decisions because they are not capable of weighing their own risks.

...and, mother ****er, abortion is already legal.

Quote

05-04-2020 , 02:41 PM

#589

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max Cut

I'm not in favor of killing babies. It's something you made up. I favor life and freedom and equal rights. You favor patriarchy and misogynistic religiosity, and use deceptive language to defend it. Oh, and you favor killing mothers or some other bad thing I can't think of to make up for this silly game right now.

Please stop lying about me. The bolded is absolutely FALSE.

You're a wicked LIAR.

Quote

05-04-2020 , 02:42 PM

#590

Max Cut

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by lagtight

Please stop lying about me. The bolded is absolutely FALSE.

You're a wicked LIAR.

You stop lying about me and others that favor abortion-rights first, reprobate sinner.

Quote

05-04-2020 , 02:43 PM

#591

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max Cut

So it's about controlling women's decisions because they are not capable of weighing their own risks.

...and, mother ****er, abortion is already legal.

I only want to "control" decisions when those decisions lead to bodily harm of a third party.

Quote

05-04-2020 , 02:45 PM

#592

Max Cut

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by lagtight

I only want to "control" decisions when those decisions lead to bodily harm of a third party.

So you posted the following just to hear yourself type? Seems dishonest.

Quote:

Abortion also can endanger the mother, and can often make later childbirth more difficult.

Also, many women have lifelong emotional scars from killing their unborn baby.
lagtight is online now Report Post

Quote

05-04-2020 , 02:46 PM

#593

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max Cut

You stop lying about me first, reprobate sinner.

If I lied about you, I will PUBLICLY apologize. Will you do the same?

Are you not in favor of legal abortion? If so, you're in favor of killing unborn babies. (A fetus can be referred to as a baby).

Quote

05-04-2020 , 02:50 PM

#594

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max Cut

So you posted the following just to hear yourself type? Seems dishonest.

I was addressing a specific issue with Mr. Wookie regarding the possible harm to a pregnant woman by proceeding with thevpregnancy. I was merely showing that there are bodily and psychological risks to abortion.

I agree that point is NOT the main point, but I was responding to Mr. Wookie.

Quote

05-04-2020 , 02:51 PM

#595

Max Cut

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by lagtight

If I lied about you, I will PUBLICLY apologize. Will you do the same?

Are you not in favor of legal abortion? If so, you're in favor of killing unborn babies. (A fetus can be referred to as a baby).

I will not give you the liberty of framing it unopposed as killing unborn babies. That is a bad-faith framing designed to appeal to emotion by juxtaposing "killing" and "babies". I consider it a lie about my pro-abortion-rights position.

Opposing abortion-rights for any time after conception is akin to opposing vasectomy-rights, which you and other anti-abortion-rights people do not oppose.

Quote

05-04-2020 , 02:55 PM

#596

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max Cut

You are welcome to oppose my "framing" all you want.

Just as I am free to oppose the "framing" of "Pro-Choice."

Quote

05-04-2020 , 02:56 PM

#597

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

Quote:

Originally Posted by lagtight

Pregnancy is bodily harm BY CHOICE.

If a woman becomes pregnant AGAINST HER WILL, then one can make a strong legal case for abortion in that type of situation.

Abortion also can endanger the mother, and can often make later childbirth more difficult.

Also, many women have lifelong emotional scars from killing their unborn baby.

That's an interesting definition of choice you have there. It also appears you believe myths about abortion.

Quote

05-04-2020 , 02:57 PM

#598

d2_e4

certifiable moron

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 12,104

Lagtight, being "in favour" of something and being "not against" it are not the same thing. You can be in favour of giving people the right to choose what to do, even if you wouldn't personally do it yourself or think it's a good idea.

Last edited by d2_e4; 05-04-2020 at 03:04 PM.

Quote

05-04-2020 , 03:03 PM

#599

Max Cut

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by lagtight

You are welcome to oppose my "framing" all you want.

Just as I am free to oppose the "framing" of "Pro-Choice."

The difference is that one is deceptive by design and the other is not. You are indeed free to continue using your wicked deception. Or we could have a rational debate using the terminology of (pro- or anti-) abortion-rights. This is not a religion forum. The political/legal issue is abortion rights.