Well, every culture has norms, that have some level of arbitrariness to them. That is inevitable. I do think it is important to at some level to realize your norms are arbitrary, and you didn't happen to wake up and be born into the single culture in the history of humanity that figured it all out.


I mean if the norm of your society is that elective abortions are allowed until week 24, then so be it. But don't delude yourself that there is some universal truth that pre week 24 it isn't murder and post week 24 it is. That is just the norm your culture came up with.

Also, I think it is fair for cultures to be somewhat fascist and say, this is how we do things here, and you have to do things our way. And without some of that, a society probably won't have enough cohesion to operate. But noone should think the reason is because they were the ones to figure out some universal truth.

The truth hurts sometimes.

You are horrible at the socratic method

I've noticed that everybody who is pro-abortion was never themselves personally aborted. Amazing how that works.

Point taken. Change it to "endorsed by a vast majority consensus of medical practitioners" or something like that, rather than sanctioned by corrupt political and religious authoritarians. ****nut

I guess I should take it as an honor that I'm being mocked by people who are fine with killing babies.

Point taken. There is good $$$ in killing babies.

Digging deep into the bad-faith arguing with old standards like calling the other side pro-abortion and equating abortion with murdering children.


I've noticed how many pro-pre-lifers that demand control over women's decisions are ****ing MEN. Amazing how that works.

What makes you troll?

Don't you think some of that has to do with the fact that only one woman posts here?
Also I do think we need some more work on defining what a bad-faith argument is.
A bad faith argument would be if lagtight actually didn't care or was secretly aborting kids on the weekend.

No seriously. Why is it hurtful? Isn't it just semantics anyways?

Anyways Max,
It's all about how you want to define baby. I could break it down for you further. But lagtight you see has a different definition of baby than you do.
But I don't think you need to be offended by his definition.

Duh. Stop being dumb. It is his intention is to offend. It is his intention to cast the discussion in the most hurtful frame possible because he thinks that will best serve his religious ideology. There is a reason we have accepted definitions. Using different definitions is usually bad-faith posting, as in this case. He should be posting his ****ing murdering babies BS in the religion forum.

Well if you know all that then that's even more reason to not get offended.

Definitely all of them

I agree actually that sometimes it can be.
But I'll disagree with the notion that definitions are "accepted". Sometimes they are and sometimes they aren't. "Baby" is one of those that has gray area.
I mean we're talking about when babies begin- but do we know when they end? Three? Two? When they start to have actual personalities?

What do you care if I'm offended or not? Are you in charge of that now? There are those of us, members of the same human race as you, that are concerned about offensive rhetoric that is hurtful and can cause harm to people other than ourselves. All you wonder is why MY jimmies might be rustled?

In a perfect world we wouldn't have jimmies. Ask anatta about that one though.

Except, of course, I'm not fine at all with killing babies. I'm fine with terminating fetuses. Those aren't the same.

There are, in fact, finite medical and scientific definitions for “zygote”, “fetus”, and “baby”.

Hope this helps

So when does baby end and toddler begin?

There's only gray area for those engaging in bad-faith argumentation.

baby
a very young child, especially one newly or recently born.

fetus
an unborn offspring of a mammal, in particular an unborn human baby more than eight weeks after conception.

embryo
an unborn or unhatched offspring in the process of development, in particular a human offspring during the period from approximately the second to the eighth week after fertilization (after which it is usually termed a fetus).

A “baby” is considered an “infant” until it learns to walk, aka “toddle”.

Just because you don’t know specific words doesn’t mean they haven’t been defined.

Maybe the best idea is to just leave women’s bodies and women’s health to... women.

It's why I asked. You said you knew. I've been taking care of a 9 month old pretty much every day and I'm learning a lot. She is almost toddling.
I think I've finally figured out how to avoid having any major freak outs ever--which is never leave her alone or put her in her playpen. If I need to pee I just leave the door open and put her in the hallway. She hates being alone or out of sight of people.