idk why you all make it so complicated.

also wtf is with the x weeks if > x you pay more/less money LOL

Late abortions are commonly a tragedy because they result from new tragic information or from something having failed earlier - pressure, ignorance, lack of service/support type stuff.

Penalties are an awful idea. Making services, support and information available easily and quickly is a no brainer (as is access to contraception). Tackling pressure on women (either to keep or abort) is hard but very important and absolutely not something the victim of it should be punished for.

The penalties stuff is the neoliberal solution. If there is going to be an abortion debate might as well figure out how to get people to pay higher taxes as a result.

20 weeks is late abortion, not a nagging inconvenience. Nobody is opting for 20 week* abortions- these are all tragedy cases where a fetal anomaly or serious health condition has been detected, usually on the 20 week ultrasound. Abortions at this stage are from women who wanted to keep the baby but can’t. What you’re suggesting is penalizing women who hoped for a healthy pregnancy and just found out that their fetus didn’t develop normally and doesn’t have a brain or lungs, like in Potter Syndrome. I have a friend who had to abort after 20 weeks because her fetus’s liver formed outside the body and the baby wouldn’t survive. These are devastating cases, and what you’re suggesting is that she should have on top of this tragedy ALSO be penalized! That’s some sick sh*t right there.

What peabrain men like you fail to understand is that late abortions aren’t casually done EVER- they constitute 1% of abortions and these women are grieving. They don’t need smug little turds like you to examine their “moral compasses”. They need good healthcare from their doctors and for dilettante f*cks like you and the rest of the clueless idiot men in government to keep your noses where they belong, outside our personal healthcare decisions.

Jfc some of you are such tremendous pieces of uninformed self-righteous garbage

Probably best if all the self-righteous people left this thead

Nah. My friend who is an OB actually rotated at a clinic that specialized in 2nd trimester abortions. Mostly irresponsible teenagers. Black and low education demographic very highly overrepresented. Its not a common thing, but it is real. You really have a very oversimplified, euphemistic notion of who is getting abortions and why.

Abbaddabba echoing what has often been the case. Oppression of abortion rights is disproportionately for the poor. Wealthy women can travel for safe abortions in legal jurisdictions, or in Abbaddabba's stepping stone to the handmaid's tale, they can simply afford his 'penalty'.

But it's probably irrelevant since very often all they want is to control women. Like these ****ers that support so many other policies that harm children and people in general give a **** about fetuses or the sanctity of life. It's their ****ing bedtime lullaby.

At least you can't call it voter suppression though. Rather the opposite.

Me: Abortions after 20 weeks are very rare and always tragic. We shouldn’t penalize women like that.

You: Nuh uh! It’s also underprivileged women and teens! Mostly blacks and other irresponsibles. THEY should be penalized! GOTCHA!

Kelhus didn't say they should be penalized. He was however saying that your narrative of all 2nd trimester abortions being due to health reasons is bogus. You just gloss over that part and pretend like he's proving your point or something.
"Oh what...most abortions are of black people. Great. I win".

My post he responded to was objecting to penalizing women. Try to keep up with the plot.

That's not how it works.
He has to say that women should be penalized for you to be able to claim that he said that. I understand you might think responding to a long post with a disagreement means that he therefore is disagreeing with everything you wrote, but that isn't actually reality.
Now maybe he does think they should be penalized. Idk. But I do know he didn't say it.

I will gladly answer your question above after you answer the question that I posed to you in Post #326:

Is it your position that a woman should have the legal right to abort her baby at 32 weeks?

Thanks.

I want to answer this though. I think it's either
1) Conception or
2) The Joey Test: This involves showing a kid a picture of themselves and a Joey. If they can state who is who, they can live.
Now I'm just trying to out which one. No half measures and the standard is either 1) humanity or 2) self-awareness

I think the state has a right to limit abortions around the 24 week mark. I thought that was clear by my acceptance of the Roe balancing test.

Lb, you know you are failing #2 of your test in the 120-150 trimester, right?

Crossnerd already gave you the answer. An "abortion" at 32 weeks is either a delivery or a tragedy. There's no such thing as aborting viable fetuses at 32 weeks, and there never has been, but perhaps you favor requiring women with malformed fetuses to go through a proper labor and delivery so that it can have a few extra minutes of painful existence?

But don’t you understand it’s important for us men to have these completely abstract thought experiments for funsies.

What if they take the baby out and then jam it back in and then the woman decides she wants an abortion? That is an interesting thing we could discuss.

Man, this is really beyond the pale, even by the usual standard of profoundly offensive **** that gets posted here.

Abbas entire post is complete nonsense. I assume he was just throwing out some troll bait to see what he could catch, for his own perverse amusement.

As far as the actual topic there is shockingly little information available, in academia or government research, on the causes of 2nd trimester abortion. I assume this is for political reasons and isn't entire surprising. There was one Washington Post article I couldn't access and most of the other information was clear activist motivated (from the left and right), with no sourcing at all.

This is a conversation that I have had with WN before. He thinks it isn't a problem that so much academic social science research is dominated and controlled by left leaning activists, because most people are honest and the data is good. However, IMO honesty isn't the problem; the problem is that activism is dictating that only certain questions are even being asked, and there is intentionally giant knowledge holes, that isn't serving the public interest at all. This would seem to be one of those situations.

Yeah, thank God you got here in time to give the troll an reaction and virtue signal in front of the rest of us. Well done. Too bad you forgot to insult the mod or Chez for how he handled Politics unchained 73.40. You could have hit at least a trifecta with just a little more effort.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...68808008313755

I can't access the whole paper, but here is an abstract of a report done in England, which indicates most of the reasons for second term abortions do not involve medical issues. I can't see the actual paper, so it isn't clear to me whether they only were looking at elective abortions or not. The reasons listed in the abstract line up with the anecdotal evidence I have from talking to someone who rotated through a second trimester clinic. A lot of teenagers, a lot of indecisiveness, a lot of fear from telling their parents, most with very little reproductive health knowledge, even to the point where it seems they didn't even know they were pregnant (or at least were in denial) in a number of cases.

There does seem to be some confusion, so I should clarify I am specifically talking about 2nd term abortions. The second term is roughly week 13-26, and it seems the vast majority are performed in the week 13-20 range, although like I said there is shockingly little information on this that isn't coming from activists and unsourced.

^ Cliffs on the bulk of this thread. ****ing creepy.

All in the name of protecting kids. LOL no. How many of the infinite horror scenarios do these guys intricately explore about when a child is isolated from his/her parents and locked up.