He could well be one, but you haven't actually provided proof of this and no it isn't just one black conservative spokesman saying it either, plenty of black people voted for Trump.

And we're not talking about whether or not he's a racist we're talking about whether not he called for the murder of black people on twitter. He didn't, end of and I'm not accepting he did simply for using the word thugs to describe rioters of all races. That'snot to say the word can't be used as a racist dog whistle as it can be and I already gave an example in the AA thread. But it can also be used neutrally and is by US MSM to refer to criminals of all races. Over my way it can be used by anti racists to describe criminals who happen to be black, such as here.




But in America it can be used neutrally too, depending on the context, (such as Gotti, Whitey Bolger's associate and some black biker dude all which were linked earlier either itt or the AA thread) , context which you deliberately ignore due to your dislike of Trump and it's absolutely fair enough to dislike him, I happen to dislike him myself. But don't lie about what he actually said. The word thug isn't always used as an automatic racist dog whistle as was shown.
So again I reckon we'll just have to disagree on this one. But again think whatever you like and I will too. Speaks volumes that you have to move goalposts though. Your stance is that he called for the murder of black people and when you can't provide the quote of him saying this, you switch to "oh well he's a racist anyway so he must have meant that!".

Nobody who engages in objective assessment is going to buy that. Only partisans and those of a lockstep mentality will.

So why did chief Headly specifically use the term 'Negro district' if he wasn't specifically referring to blacks ? And why did Trump allude to that particular quote said at that particular time ?

You see, once again, you ignore the obvious context of what Trump said even after it's pointed out to you.

WHY ? What are you trying to prove to us ?


"Just because" is something America adults tell their children when their children pester them with absurd questions.

It's funny that everyone knew that but you, just like everyone knows what Trump means but you.

CV, when you express something close to agnosticism about Trump's beliefs on race, you are ignoring the American context around quotes like the one below.

As I said before, if you are a white person in the United States, you do not show up in support of an march organized by white supremacists unless you are a flaming racist. It's really that simple. Even Trump understands it's that simple. That's why the "both sides" quote above was so inflammatory, and that's why it was so warmly received by white supremacists.

And there are a lot of other reasons why people think Trump is a racist/xenophobe. He has "mistakenly" retweeted stuff from obvious white supremacists more than once. He was one of the leading proponents of the theory that Obama was born in Kenya, which is widely believed in the United States to be xenophobic/racist, in no small part because it is baseless. He said that Jeb Bush liked illegal immigrants because his wife is Mexican American. He claimed that a federal judge was inherently biased against him because he (the judge) was Mexican American. When he was running for president, he refused in an interview to renounce support from David Duke, a former grand dragon of the KKK. (After that comment didn't play so well, he backed off it and implausibly blamed the comment on a faulty earpiece.)

And then there is pretty much everything related to the travel ban shitshow.

What CV is trying to do:

1. Prove Trump isn’t racist
2. Prove racist dog whistles clearly used in context to promote racism are not racist.
3. Show Donald J. Trump Ireland has the bestest Trump supporters in the world.

I do appreciate that the example CV most regularly uses to prove “thug” is not racist is to use it as a slur against other ethnic minorities in this country. Because Italians and Irish have never faced prejudice and oppression in the United States.

It it’s almost like he doesn’t understand the history of such words have been dog whistles to beat down minorities for a very long time in this country.

Imagine the American President saying he wants to have black people murdered for protesting and then some guy, not even from America, goes hard in the paint fighting for Trump’s racist honor. At this point I have to chalk it up as “Onion”.

I will give you credit for one thing, you are absolutely shameless.

Still waiting on that list of examples of things you think are racist. You have wasted enough breath telling us all the things that are not racist. You really need to put up or shut up and tell us what racism is to you.

I've been skimming your long posts because the whole argument is stupid but this caught my eye as it was directly above a bunch of videos. Did you really just claim that high profile black conservatives understand racism against black people "a helluva lot more" than the black person you are directly replying to in that post? Because that is absurd beyond belief.

I can only assume that you somehow didn't realise that TeflonDawg is black but that's still hard to believe since you've replied directly to multiple of his posts in which he either explicitly stated that he is black or at least made it very clear that he is speaking from direct experience of the issues. Hell even in the specific post you are replying to he said "make any one of us minorities to squint at a minimum"...

You literally fight to the death that every single claim of racism is not racist. All while never giving any examples of what you think is racist.

There has never been a bigger defender of racism in the history of the world right now. You perpetually argue nothing is racist. Nobody can outdue you on that.

another ****ing clorox victim

No.

Ideally I'd agree. But I meant that black people have a better understanding of racism against black people than non black people. (I'll address your point re Teflon in a minute)
The fact that Elder is conservative (He actually identifies as libertarian but I reckon he's really conservative as that's how he comes across by and large) is incidental.
I never said anything about anyone being high profile either, there's plenty of ordinary black conservatives of various economic backgrounds also.

Fuerthermore even high profile black conservatives aren't necessarily born into high profile backgrounds. Elder went to school in South Central as a kid for example and I'd imagine black people from south central probably get more police scrutiny than people who aren't from south central. He's also elderly so likely grew up in an era where racism was far more overt and the police subject to far less scrutiny so again he'd have a better understanding of racism against black people than non black people would. Just as black liberals would. Or black people whose political stance is central/middle of the road.

So no, that's not what I claimed or meant so I think we're good but my apologies if I didn't make that clearer and my bad.


You'd be correct in that assumption as I had thought TD said he was Puerto Rican so assumed he was Latino actually, but my bad and my apologies to him for assuming this, maybe I got him conflated with a different poster and my apologies to him again.
That said, he's incorrect with "any one of us minorities" comment as the point remains that Elder as a minority has just as much right to opine that Trump isn't a racist- along with all of those black people who voted for him from all different backgrounds- as Teflon does opining he is/might be one.

And again it's not about whether Trump's a racist or not, it's about whether he called for the murder of black people on twitter. He didn't and again we're going around in circles here as the only claim made to justify this is his use of the word thugs to describe rioters of various races, so I'm comfortably rejecting that. His use of the word will be repeated endlessly via proof by assertion as that's the only thing people have for claiming he tweeted for black people to be murdered, and I'll keep comfortably rejecting that, so I agree with you that the argument is pretty stupid.

But hey maybe if false claims weren't made to begin with, others wouldn't feel the need to argue about it

Just to go over remedial English comprehension one more time.

When Trump refereed to Minneapolis “THUGS”, (notice all upper case) He was specifically calling out black protesters, particularly black looters. He supported this identification by claiming “these” people were destroying the memory of George Floyd.

He went on to say:
He threatens to send in the military to keep these thugs [blacks] inline. He then specifically says he is calling on them to be shot if anyone loots.

Perhaps that last part is where you take exception? It would be about as crazy as you constantly claiming “thug” is not racist. Is it your contention by using the word “shoot” he was not really intending for anyone to be killed?

Otherwise it is very clear that he said :

Black People are ruining the memory of George Floyd with all those crimes. I am going to call in the military and kill them if they don’t stop it right now.

You can keep putting your fingers in your ears saying “lalalala he never said he was going to kill black people” but you will continue to be wrong. This was not even difficult and the language used was barely trying to hide his racist message. We could go over how his message is greatly contrasted against how he spoke about white protesters only a week previously. They were armed white people intimating violence and Trump said they shouid be left alone and be supported.

Why do you think you are so knowledgeable about racism in America? As has been presented to you so many times, there are all sorts of issues in your country I would never pretend to be an authority on because I am not there nor have I properly studied it. Yet you don’t feel that any of that is necessary for you to endlessly defend racism in America, on this forum.

“Those dirty potato eaters are ruining our neighborhoods and stealing all the food and if they don’t stop stealing we should have all those MICKS shot. If they are eating they get a BEATING!”

Everyone eats potatos, and there are people named Mick who are not Irish. Go no further than Mickey Mouse. So it can’t be racist.

Not sure I follow, sorry

QED

No one owes you that proof until you give examples of what such proof would look like to you and would be acceptable and then they can determine if the discussion is even warranted.

Many racist defenders liks to play this game. They say 'give me some proof that will meet my standard and be convincing to ME', but they know not to tip their hand and define that as they want to be able to rationalize and dismiss any proof provided.


Without defining what actions you would define as racist someone might provide proof of :

- someone attending a White supremacist march. Your reply then becomes "you do not know why they were there. They might have thought it was something else. Prove to me they knew or I will not accept it as racist.

- someone marching in a white supremacist march . Your reply, 'ya the action seems racist but you do not know what is in their heart or intentions. Prove to me what was in their hear to r intention' or i will not accept it is racist.


Sensible people have learned the games racist defenders play and do not get dragged into them. Smarter racists will not say a word or do overt actions. It is typically veiled with a thin veneer. We CAN assess racism by the totality of a persons comments and actions and Trump certain is guilty by that standard.

I found the evidence that Trump is racist. Files and files bursting at the seams with it:



It's all in there, guys. Trust me.

Um , he’s married to a Russian , how could he be racist .

I'm not black. I'm 100% Puerto Rican. I am often mistaken for a white guy.

My parents divorced when I was young. Mother lived in upper middle class suburbs and I went to an all white school w rich kids. Father lived in North Philadelphia so on the weekends I would hang around his stores and play basketball at courts around the city. Zero white people. Everyone is broke. I got nicknames like John Stockton and White Iverson. So I'd have front row seats to dickhead cops harassing people who "match the description", murder attempts across the street, people getting jumped, etc

Then I'd go back to school on Monday and watch white kids laugh about their lives like they're untouchable. And I felt like that too. It's weird though, because I got called racial slurs, told to go back to where I came from, I dated a chick and my friend called her a sand ******. I've seen and heard all kinds of ****. But I'll never pretend I didn't have an easy life. I had a very privileged life. But I saw all the ****ed up **** that happened in a world most of those rich kids will never, ever see. I lived in it at different times in my life

I have benefited from white privilege. I have grown up with kids who will inherit one or two commas for literally nothing and I have grown up with kids that still live on the same block in terrible neighborhoods. Jail. Crime. Poverty. And some who made it out (happy for them) by the skin of their teeth. Cops do things like go full Office Linebacker Terry Tate on 14 year old kids who just happen to be really ****ing big. And then give them a world of **** for not having ID. The ****? He's 14...But the cops never messed with me. Never got pulled over for illegal tint or anything. But I drove past hella tinted cars pulled over all the time...I am fully aware that I get away with **** others never will. It makes me both appreciative and angry at the same time. I am a chameleon often in conflict with myself about all of this

Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none. As if this world wasn't already enough of a tragicomic stage...

So based on your first hand experience, do you think the police are the main problem and "urban" neighborhoods would fare better without any?

Sure they do as one who asserts must prove one's assertion, otherwise it's just a claim on a forum on the internetz innit?. So prove it.

Also, don't blame me for the backtracking of others. It went from Trump SAID to Trump MEANT. With the use of the word thug to justify.
Multi racial rioters.- Hand waved away. Examples of how the word thug can be used neutrally by US MSM to describe criminals of all races- hand waved away.
President Obama using the exact same word to describe rioters previously- hand waved away. So even the thug argument didn't stand up to scrutiny as it just hand waved away all examples to the contrary. Basically lalalala I'm not listening Trump said it because he said it and if I can't show he said then I'll change it to he meant id and I'll keep repeating the sole point I have to make for this forever and ever amen as he meant that because he just did.
And again I'm comfortably rejecting that

Lol no I didn't reply any such thing I provided the transcripts of what Trump said and who he claimed to say it about, not what you believe he said.

As for the protest itself, I'm pretty sure it was mostly a bunch of white supremacist nuts and certainly organised by such types. Trump claims there were others there who were merely protesting the removal of the statue and I have no idea how true or false that is. But by that rationale was every single counter protester an antifa member? I very much doubt that.
From googling more though it appears that one militia group that attended did so "In a neutral stance".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Yo...t_Foot_Militia

They also condemned the violence of "Right wing lunatics"
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...peech-violence
So not everyone attending was a neo-nazi any more than all the counter protestors antifa embers

Okay. Thing is, there were yet again multi racial rioters no matter how many times you ignore this. It's already been established that Trump didn't tweet for black people to be killed, If you wish to think he really meant "when the looting starts the shooting starts, only the bullets are going to magically circumvent white people and hit only black people and hopefully other non whites but especially black people" then who am I to dissuade you from that notion?

You are being way too credulous about the motivations of marchers in Charlottesville. It is simply inconceivable that any American would march in a protest organized by white supremacists unless they were sympathetic to the views of white supremacists. And after-the-event efforts by militia groups to distance themselves from the march after it turned into a violent embarrassment are not in the least bit convincing.

It's also worth noting that proponents of scientific racism -- you know, the guys that claim to have a purely intellectual interest in trying to prove biological links between skin pigment and intelligence or skin pigment and crime or skin pigment and whatever the **** -- usually disclaim that they are racists. Should we take those disclaimers at face value, no matter how many conferences on white supremacy they speak at and how many white supremacist journalists they publish in?

I think she's Slovenian actually
Anyhoo...

https://apnews.com/f62ed59014cbf43fc1da21e3fcbfe904
Gosh. That's how I inferred it too, albeit almost certainly from the police and meant as hardline thundering.


We all know what he really meant by that though don't we? The nazi bastard

With respect it's simply inconceivable to you and others who feel the same way that you do. By your rationale the ACLU is sympathetic to neo nazis for defending their right to spew hatred and march through sensitive areas they shouldn't be marching through.
https://www.aclu.org/other/aclu-hist...-speech-skokie
Instead of passionately believing in the right to assemble and freedom of speech, the way that NY militia claim.

Again with respect, this is just you deciding that some weird militia group who claim non white and non Christian members and condemns "right wing lunatics" and claim they don't support white supremacy are still white supremacist neo nazis and this is all part of some ruse, including their non white/non Christian members.

Here's mention of another millitiia who apparetly attended the rally and condemned violence and white supremacy
https://www.c-ville.com/militia-men-...done-violence/
In 1972 there were large protests in Dublin over Bloody Sunday where soldiers shot dead 14 people at a civil rights march up north.Those protests were almost certainly organised by Sinn Féin and the IRA and probably other Irish Republican groups.That doesn't mean everyone there were Sinn Féin or IRA members or Irish Republicans many were simply pissed off at Bloody Sunday.

Not everyone who attends something organised by a body are necessarily part of that body. Again the Black Block at G8 spring to mind.

So it can be inferred that Trump didn't mean neo nazis with his both sides comment.

Again the whole argument here appears to be Trump's a racist cuz he is one ergo called for the murder of black people because he just did. (even though he actually didn't)

No offence but if that's all that's on offer then we may as well wrap this up now because no way am I going to accept such reasoning. But think what you like, you're entitled to your opinion as I am mine, cheers.

Corpus, below is the flier advertising the Charlotesville march. What more do you want on it, a swastika?



You might want to look up those names if you're still not sure.

Is your position still that people who are not white supremacists/neo-Nazis attended this march? And stayed for the happy sing-song and "jews will not replace us" chanting? Come on dude, this is a really silly hill to die on.

I've just provided links highlighting which non neo nazis attended. Nobody is claiming it wasn't organised by neo nazis and white supremacists. But not everyone at it was a neo nazi as has been shown. Is it your position that everyone not counter protesting were neo nazis and all counter protesters were antifa or BLM activists only?
Is it your position that the ACLU are neo nazis or neo nazi sympathisers due to them defending neo nazis?

trump unaware of the phrase lol--like he wasn't watching people get blasted with a firehose on tv back in the day with his pants around his ankles.

If you go to events organized by little nazi wannabes and are just there because well you kinda agree with some of the same things--uh ya you're not a good person. Ever appeasing these scumbags was a horrible idea. Remember back in the day the people that said--well if you just leave em alone they'll eventually go away. That was wrong then and it didn't work. There's really only 1 way to deal with them.