I agree that in most contexts walking up to someone you don't know and opening with "Are you from India?" is rude - that is too personal a question with which to open a conversation. The other person should be able to signal to you how open they are to sharing more private things about themselves first, which is why more neutral topics like the weather, sports, or professional topics are better to start. So my comment shouldn't be directed against your story, but more just stating that I think a question about ethnicity once the conversational ice has been broken doesn't seem rude to me. That is, I don't favor conversational norms where ethnicity is a subject you are supposed to avoid unless it is specifically brought up by the other person. Ethnicity is often an important part of a person's identity, and even if it is annoying to get asked the question a lot, seems too useful to give up.

Do you commonly ask white people which european country their family came from? It might be an important component of their identity whether someone is Indian vs Sri Lankan vs Bangladeshi etc, but is it really that "useful" anywhere near the beginning of building a relationship with someone? They already look South Asian. It seems to me that asking this question mainly serves to center the discussion around that look, not because the distinction of which South Asian country they are from is a useful thing to know early on.

Sometimes? Especially if they have a noticeable accent? Although I wouldn't assume that someone was from a European country just because they were white. When I was in grad school I would ask more frequently, just because there were a lot of white international students in my program and around NYC.

Of course people who look different from the local norm will get asked this question more commonly than most, and I can understand why this would get annoying and isn't really fair. I just don't think you can stop people from wondering about people who look different or act outside the local cultural norms, and that more easygoing and open conversational norms about ethnicity is a better equilibrium for lowering tensions on these topics.

Just ask politely, what's the fuzz?

It's not like we're going to solve racism by ignoring that people differ in ethnic origins or ancestry. People's lineage is a genuinely interesting subject, and often an nice opportunity to learn something.

Ok. But people can learn to have a little bit of sensitivity to the fact that centering early interactions with POC on their ethnicity can be harmful. That focusing on the colour of their skin and not, say, the academic topic you are interviewing for or any other type of small talk, can be insulting. I don't think it is a bridge to far to pause your burning curiosity about whether the Indian looking person is actually Indian until the conversation naturally flows in a way that makes that vaguely relevant. It isn't the end of the world if someone really can't restrain themselves - they put the word micro in microaggression for a reason - and it isn't an absolutely rule, just something people should have a little sensitivity towards.

This is perhaps similar to any number of other things where someone might look a little different and people might naturally notice this, but are better advised to keep their mouths shut for a bit.

I don't disagree with any of this, but I think you're only emphasizing one consideration here. There is a balance to be struck between being sensitive about the effects discussing a topic can have on other people's feelings and the honesty and genuineness of feeling that comes from being able to speak your mind openly. I also think it's good for multi-ethnic societies like the US to try to keep cultural competence requirements low, which I suspect correlate with conversational norms less focused on sensitivity.

I don't think people should be rude. If someone doesn't want to discuss something, including their ethnicity, generally you should respect their wish. But much of the norms about what topics are appropriate to discuss in social settings are a matter of convention. People can get annoyed because they dislike other people focusing on their ethnic identity, but they can also get annoyed when people break social conventions. My argument is directed against making it a social convention that bringing up someone's ethnicity in a professional-mingle type social conversation is prima facie inappropriate. Let's keep this a matter of individual judgement. Maybe this doesn't apply to Canada, you guys are famous for politeness. And I'll admit to having a Quakerish bias towards plain speech.

Little kids do it Sadly we all know racism is taught by the parents or in some cases bigotry comes from religous beliefs

You will never eliminate it just as you will never end murder or homelessness all you can do is combat it.

Reference Covid Canada's numbers are increasing very quickly. It seems its Ontario, QC and Alberta leading the way. BC not good but better than the rest. Alberta still not onboard with the Covid app which is disgusting.
With Winter coming up and cold and flu season it does not look good. Add in the failure of either the federal or provincial governments not having the testing capacity Winter looks bleak.

It baffles me why no health minister will talk about getting healthier. Eat better lose weight.

Probably because some social group will come out saying « they are insulting overweight peoples », condemned it for attack on their ´ interior well-being ‘....

Accepting that framing for now, I think the situation we are talking about is pretty far on the latter side of that teeter totter. This isn't asking for some high level sensitivity and nuance and cultural acumen. It's not ruling out topics or preventing people from speaking their mind openly. Instead, talking about this is about helping bring some awareness that immediately blurting out "where are you from" when meeting a POC it focuses the relationship on their ethnicity, and is widely reported as, at minimum, a frustratingly common experience. I think you can be fairly stringently against social norms and for plain speech and be nonetheless appreciative of developing some social awareness of the typical consequences of our speech.

Part of the challenge here is that when you walk up to someone at an interview and the first thing you say is "are you from india" it removes the POC to have an opportunity to indicate whether this is something they want to discuss, and puts the onus on them to resolve this rather socially awkward situation if they don't want the conversation to focus on their ethnicity.

Does anyone wonder if we currently have a false economy. It seems with all the programs it is somewhat holding up the economy which may soon crash. I am actually shocked the USA which has very little direct stimulus is still holding up.

Personally I think early 2021 its gonna crash .

A lot of the US is no longer under lockdown. Their employment number will be even better this month. It's a big part of the reason a Trump landslide is about to happen.

Keep your spew out of this thread. I click 'view new posts' to read the continuing love saga of lozen and uke - not to read crap best left to the Trump thread where your trolling is appreciated.

Numbers of people applying to the new EI will give an idea how screwed the economy will be - but (in my opinion only) the middle class - those who's tax dollars fund the government - aren't doing as bad as the service industry. The increase in the %'ge of unemployed might be high, but I don't see the government's revenue from Income Tax going down by the same amount.

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Of course, the numbers of people applying for EI will be higher than the actual number of unemployed, when allowing for fraud. Here's some fun facts from CERB payouts:

...in January, before there were any COVID-19 restrictions, 13,800 people were employed in Nunavut, according to Statistics Canada. Since CERB was introduced in March, 8,800 Nunavummiut, or 63 per cent of the number of people working in January, have collected the benefit. Yet in Nunavut, more than half of working people are employed by government and have not suffered any loss of employment income.

Similarly in the N.W.T., 20,400 people were working in January. More than half of that number, or 10,640 people, have collected CERB payments. According to the N.W.T. Bureau of Statistics, just over 47 per cent of people working in the N.W.T. work in the public sector, where there have been no layoffs.

Hey I think Uke and I keep it pretty calm compared to the posters arguing over the leader to the south. He loves Trudeau I dispise Trudeau. I am sure I could sit down and buy him a beer and discuss politics without a scrap

I think at the start he did an OK job at Covid. Now it is horrible . He promised testing 6 months ago and like many of his promises failed to deliver. Though I think the same applies to our premier

Your post seems to show what I suspect is happening many are collecting CERB that technically qualify but should not get. On a positive all that cash goes back into the economy. I give JT a pass on this as he had to get the help out there.

Today's Covid News

Justin " Its not my fault its the provinces fault" Hmm what leader used that excuse

Westjet cancelling 100 flights. That is going to be a lot of jobs. This winter scares me and I have a clue what the answer is other than testing, testing, testing and 24 hour results and wear a mask

What other leader did that?

It's pretty obvious spending the winter in the US would be best option right now if you can.


Westjet cancelling all those flights does suck. I typically make a trip to the atlantic provinces every summer and many of my co workers travel back and forth from there. It will be Interesting to see how this affects them.

What exactly are you referring to? But yes, basically every single federal leader ever has blamed the provinces. Often quite correctly as jurisdictionally the provinces in Canada are very powerful and control a lot of the key political sectors like healthcare and education.

My point is and let be clear I think Trump is an idiot but when Trump says its the states responsibility the media screams but your the leader you need to responsibility and they are right.

If you promise to the citizens of Canada 5-6 months ago we will have the testing than you put that responsibility on yourself. As a federal government you have the emergency measures act and the federal power. I also say the same thing of jason Kenney approve the stinking app and urge Albertan's to use it. To the municipal leaders here in Alberta stop making some measures voluntary. If you have a mask bylaw educate and fine

Im just scared for this country that we had so much time to get testing and contact tracing in place and they both suck. Than you toss every premier under the bus ??

Also let me be clear on the economy end of it I am not sure any prime minister could get this right and I have no question that Andrew Scheer would be doing a worse job. If I have to pick I never thought I would say that Doug Ford seems to be doing a good job ( I almost typed Rob Ford )

Can you share exactly the comment from Trudeau you are referring to?

It was on Global National last night. It was to the tune of We gave the provinces the money if they dont have testing that is on them

Ah great, I've found the quote (obviously your quotations aren't actually quotations).

Right. Good job Trudeau. This has been a basic structural issue from the beginning. Going into the pandemic the provinces have basically 100% of all testing capacity for anything, that's the jurisdictionally the way canadian healthcare works. Post pandemic, the federal government plays the largest role by being the one with the massive purse widely disributed to the provinces, along with other thing like the absoultely insane amount of federal procurement given to the provinces and things like the federal contact tracers that can given out to provinces.

Maybe you aren't a federalist, and think the federal government should have assumed control of the health care of the provinces and been the one making the local decisions about where to set up a new testing facility or whatever else. That is something people could reasonably debate, but of course diving into these details makes your faux outrage seem fairly hollow.

No No I was not making it up . He blamed the provinces . It amounted to " I gave you the money now its your job and your fault if you lack the testing "

Let me ask you this Did Justin Trudeau promise to have the testing capacity in place about 5-6 months ago. Contact tracing is not on him the apps out there and if the provinces and people do not use it that is not on him .

You never did comment on the fact he addresses the nation at 6:30 EST which means western canada and the Coast miss it.

The reality is he can do no wrong with you. Me I at least acknowledge his pluses and pound his mistakes.

Why do you keep saying this? I feel like I've responded to this exact accusation dozens of times. Have you just forgotten? I am not a fan of Trudeau, we have a large number of significant differences on both policy and prioritization of values. He's a B- PM, imo. The reason it might appear like I'm this kind of superfan you purely imagine me to be is primarily because I so frequently push back at your endlessly stream of pretty silly attempts to attack him. So...like....can you stop saying this?

Speaking of silly attacks:
Seriously???? You are made about the timing of press conferences? Let's think this through. Firstly, anyone in western canada who a) really wants to see it and b) can't take a few minutes pause in work can, oh I dunno, watch the video on CBC? Or turn on the 6:00 news hour to catch the clips? If he delayed to say 9:30 ontario time, 10:30 atlantic then he would have missed news hour for 75% of the country which be abundantly stupid. Looks like he is timing it to have maximum impact nation wide while still not leaving anyone else to be delayed to recaps the next morning.

Like, do I really have to deal with utter minutia like this that you make up as if it is some legit criticism while ALSO fending off attacks of being slavishly in love with him? No. I'm pushing back because your attack is just bad.


Let's be honest here. Manitoba has done a legit terrible job. if I was the PMO who has excessive contact tracing capacity they want to spend in Manitoba and Manitoba both doesn't take them up on it AND their politicians try to turn it around and blame the feds. I'm sorry Trudeau didn't completely tip toe around Manitoban feelings. But my suggestion would be to worry less about these minor issues of tone and instead focus on substance.

Yeah that one surprised me as well. I have no clue as to the reason behind it.

Lets move to the Lobster Fisherman . I think Trudeau is in a similar spot as blockades. I think both sides have valid points but the supreme court never defined I am not sure how they worded it but a reasonable income. I get why they are both pissed

Oh **** they burned down an entire lobster pound and one man in hospital badly. This is horrible