That is true. There are no truly free market health care systems in the world, AFAIK, and I do not really ever claiming the Swiss system was free market. But the Swiss system is significantly MORE market based than the American or Canadian system. It is closer to what I propose than specifically the Canadian system, which is what you what we were talking about, and Montreal wanted examples of how health care markets can function. In Switzerland, there are no government hospitals, no government insurance. There is government regulation and price fixing, it is by no means a perfect system, insurance is compulsory, but it is substantially better than what exists in US and Canada because it is more market based.


I mean, I would certainly much prefer to have a market in health care, with a system of subsidies for the poor, than to have socialized medicine. I would also prefer to see the same thing in education. Then you have the benefits of the market, competition bringing costs down and quality up, and the poor are taken care of. I'd prefer even more to simply have a market, with no subsidies and voluntary charity for the poor, but I'm not going to allow the perfect to be the enemy of the good.

Yes, but Switzerland is also a very rich nation, and an old nation, and they spend a lot of their own money on health care because they choose to and they want to have high quality health care and no waiting lists. What do I care how people spend their money? My concern is about high levels of government spending, not how people spend their own money.

Switzerland was a cash heaven for a very long time, no wonder they got the money at the expense of others....

https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft...ens-shaxon.htm

"Tax havens collectively cost governments between $500 billion and $600 billion a year in lost corporate tax revenue, depending on the estimate (Crivelli, de Mooij, and Keen 2015; Cobham and Janský 2018), through legal and not-so-legal means. Of that lost revenue, low-income economies account for some $200 billion—a larger hit as a percentage of GDP than advanced economies and more than the $150 billion or so they receive each year in foreign development assistance. American Fortune 500 companies alone held an estimated $2.6 trillion offshore in 2017, though a small portion of that has been repatriated following US tax reforms in 2018. "


But regardless :

https://www.swisslife.com/en/home/me...ealthcare.html

"Unlike many of the state-supported European models of universal coverage, the Swiss system relies heavily, although not exclusively, on the private sector. At the same time, however, the 26 cantonal governments provide important subsidies to hospitals, and the federal government plays a key role in regulating the industry and influencing premiums and medical costs.

"Taking the overall picture, SwitzerlandÂ’s healthcare spending is the third highest in the OECD after the USA and France (2009). This is in terms both of expenditure per capita and as a share of GDP (10.8%)"

" high and constantly rising premiums and other outgoings for both individuals and the public purse (which are often not appreciated by consumers)."
WHY? THIS ME TALKING : because the function of free market is again to make MORE money, always ! Concentration of wealth not distribution of wealth that would benefit all. its not bad or good, its just a fact.
Never to accept a fixed reasonable income for the mission of health care, which should be for a government, the greater good of its citizen....
You just cant accept private sector to be responsible, its not its mission ....
Back to some quote, sorry.


"While it is clear that cantonal governments contribute to healthcare (particularly through public hospitals), and that taxation is used for this,.."


There is no free market there and still the government plays a major role by regulating and subsiding ...
still one of the most expensive healthcare... i give it a caveat because the income is very high but still...comparing to gdp the cost higher in switzerland than canada.

data are hard to find tho up to today but the trend is there...

https://www.oecd.org/els/health-syst...-July-2017.pdf

"Health spending in Switzerland accounted for12.1% of GDP in 2015 (equivalent to 7536USD PPP). This is well below the United States (16.9% of GDP), but above all European countries including Germany (11.2%),France (11.1%)and the United Kingdom (9.9%)."

All in all, its is far from certain its the heaven you talk about and still, far far better than the united states so please...at least agree the US isnt a great model ?

I’d almost admire The Swiss if they managed to transition being a money laundering haven into some utopian healthcare system.

Unfortunately, unless you think blacklists for basic medical checkups are a good idea, or if you think we don’t spend enough on subsidizing health care, the Swiss model is nothing to aspire to: shockingly all the profits from fascilitating criminality didn’t end up isn’t he public coffers.

So we had a throne speech

Justin Plus on wearing a mask wish the other leaders said the same thing. All parties should have said this
Justin better testing. WTF its been 6 months and folks are waiting 11 days for results?
Download the App? It doesnt work in many provinces and Quebec refuses to use it. UKe has me convinced Im ready to use it

Erin Otoole good speech

Bloc guy speak some english

Jagmit if your so upset call an election. One sentence in french just speak english

https://globalnews.ca/news/7361339/a...-approval-a2a/

Seems like a good idea. I'm sure the Canadian side will take a while to complete.

That’s great but 22B $ !
Who’s going to pay it ?!?

Funding
The Alaska – Alberta Railway Development Corporation (A2A Rail) is both privately owned and funded by its Chairman and Founder, Sean McCoshen. To date, Mr. McCoshen has spent over $100 million USD through the pre-feasibility, feasibility, and detailed engineering phases of the project. As the project progresses, it is anticipated that A2A Rail will seek investment from infrastructure funds, Sovereign Wealth groups, and private investors. Additionally, A2A Rail is looking into several government issued grants and loan guarantees in both the U.S. and Canada to assist in providing the risk capital needed to develop the railway.

inb4 enviro-whackos set up protest camps because the railway is disturbing the habitat of elk

See, all the most fervent supporter of private sector or oil always need the government to tone down the risk....

That what i hate about the narrative, government always bad bla bla bla but hey ...glad is there for the risk tho if it turns badly...

private sector loves the government as well, just wish they would acknowledge it instead of playing bad politics

There is also another risk argument. Once you go into certain sectors, like oil drilling, nuclear power, cruise lines, train companies etc., then the companies will simply not have the funds or resources to clean up or resolve the worst disasters. You also have a similar argument when it comes to long-term effects for those and other industries like shipping, car manufacture, agriculture, mining etc.

Which is of course an excellent reason why they should and must be heavily regulated.

There are some attempts at compromise, like demanding certain sectors set up joint disaster funds or guarantees to set aside funds to fight long-term effects. But they are brittle arrangements which typically leave the regulator with far less enforcement power and the operator with far more loopholes.

It's a companies fiduciary responsibility to play along with government. It's hardly an argument that the private sector wouldn't be able to build anything without government funding/involvement.

Wrong. Why do you just make things up? Companies require liability insurance for anything like this. If the cost is greater than what the insurance covers then there are sources of compensation available that's funded by industry. But there is an actual formala used for the amount of potential spill/clean up cost and how much liability insurance is required.

Once you reach a certain scale, the industry funds are useless and liability insurance have caps which make them similarly inadequate. For long-term effects, the equations get even worse. Which we know extremely well, because in these cases it pretty much always ends up with governments footing the bill, or foot the bill for the parts where the companies wrestle out of their liability (or declare bankruptcy).

There is no "make things up" here, as we know this from the multitude of cases where these things have actually happened.

Never happen under Justin Trudeau.Canada is going to recover under a green economy well he thinks so and will continue to import billions of barrels of Saudi Oil You have to think a pipeline still cheaper to build on that route if its just about oil. The American side will be quashed under Biden as well.


this is true just look at all the abandoned wells in Alberta that the province and feds are cleaning up

That is the thing about capitalism. Unprofitable firms are supposed to fail. It isn't a bug, it's a feature.

Someone made an interesting point about Trudeaus address to the nation.
It was at 6:30 EST
4:30 MST and 3:30 PST
He obviously had no care if Western Canadians heard him speak as they were still at work

Trudeau breaking another campaign promise of Clean water for the indigenous folks

I am not sure but neither party seems to keep their promises to Veterans and the Indigenous

Honestly we should do away with the reserves, Indians should just be treated like folk of any other ethnicity.

Man you get roasted for that as a politician but its not that absurd an idea.

Reality is if Columbus had not sailed here another country would have conquered North America or one tribe would control it all. The Apache were brutal in how they treated other tribes.
Though I still believe in Indigenous rights and fair treatment. If there is any culture that is actually the victim of systemic racism it be Indigenous folks.

Take this case from Quebec
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcar...ing-indigenous


Is this systemic racism or just Hospital Staff fed up with individuals coming in repeatedly drunk or high and voicing their frustration. Their behavior is unacceptable but we are so quick to assume if that was a white crack head they would not treat her/him the same way.

Lawsuit will get filed and a settlement will be paid.

The easy thing for folks to say is your a racist. What can you do to prove your not?

just show them all the rights & advantages they have compare to country that have real racism problems.

”Indian” is deeply racist. Lozen, pay attention to how you didn’t notice this at all in your long reply to him.

I must be a racist that I did not correct his term "Indian" I have had many Indigenous (took me 3 tries to spell it right) trades work for me and I have sat down with them. The general consensus amoung the older crows over 40 is
" I was born an Indian I will die an Indian" His attitude it is about how you treat me not the correct word.

My apologies for not correcting his improper term. He must be a racist as well

No, racism is when Indians get lighter prison sentences for the same crime than white or black or purple people on account of their race.

Back to Covid Canada's numbers are climbing and fast. Sadly a few provinces are not signed up for the app though the amount of folks downloading it seems low as well.
My province included hasnt signed up yet. Heck if Quebec trusts it....

Now back to Trudeau whom promises us testing months ago and just now is ordering the fast tests which are months away. His incompetence at dealing with the health aspect has been equal to Trumps. Even if somehow you can get a test after standing in line for hours after making an appointment after meeting the criterea you are waiting 5-10 days for results. Though him partnering with a chines vaccine company seems to have worked out well. Oh wait....

Sad

You're focusing on the wrong thing, as you have before. I didn't call you a racist now, and I didn't call you a racist previously. I am criticizing the act - referring to indigenous (great job on figuring out how to spell basic words from canadian culture!) peoples as "Indian", which is objectively racist. Do you see the difference? Being "racist" isn't a binary on/off type of thing, we likely all have some spectrum of attitudes and beliefs that are harmful, so don't obsess on whether I'm implying you specifically are a "racist" (something I didn't even say). Focus on identifying the attitudes within you that are harmful and do your best to improve with sensitivity and grace. For instance:

This is a bad response. Indigenous people, of course, can identify however they choose. If they grew up in a racist society who used a racist label for it and now want to use that label for themselves, power to them. However, can you find even ONE example of a canadian indigenous group who is saying they prefer to be called Indian? One article saying this is the correct term? Of course not.

This is one of those things everyone should know, similar to how white people shouldn't call black people the N word (even if a black person chooses to do so). And it should jump out like a massive sore thumb if a white person DOES use the N word to refer to a black person, or Indian to refer to indigenous people. So I would focus on why your default reaction to me pointing this out seems to be to push back with your anecdote here. And why, when PPG repeats his racist term while delivering a racist trope, you ignore that too and pivot away.

I find the more interesting focus-shift to be one where the initial message of "Indians shouldn't get to live on reservations" gets ignored in favour of critiquing the guy responding to him. Style over substance in my opinion.