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The "LOLCANADA" thread...again The "LOLCANADA" thread...again

10-11-2024 , 03:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by uke_master
Sounds accurate. Why are you mad about this?

The good news is that the carbon tax
  1. Fiscally rebates much more money back in your pocket than it costs
  2. Economically compared to "doing nothing" has HALF the cost it was estimated previously.
  3. Cuts 13 megatonnes of emissions, an important component of meeting our paris accords

Sounds like a huge win.
Yet it still costs CDN's more than they get back . I do not know one family that drives 15,200 km in a year .
The "LOLCANADA" thread...again Quote
10-11-2024 , 04:20 PM
It’s hard to imagine any policy that has zero economic effects of any kind, but yes in “apples to nothing” comparison we can note big fiscal benefits giving you more money than you pay, and marginal economic effects half the value they were stated previously. Such an efficient policy, hard to imagine any climate change plan that could do better.

Why is the 15k thing causing you such a problem? It’s an average. I drive less than that, others drive more. A carbon tax helps incentivizing driving less, which more should do.
The "LOLCANADA" thread...again Quote
10-11-2024 , 05:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by uke_master
It’s hard to imagine any policy that has zero economic effects of any kind, but yes in “apples to nothing” comparison we can note big fiscal benefits giving you more money than you pay, and marginal economic effects half the value they were stated previously. Such an efficient policy, hard to imagine any climate change plan that could do better.

Why is the 15k thing causing you such a problem? It’s an average. I drive less than that, others drive more. A carbon tax helps incentivizing driving less, which more should do.
People in the city have the option to drive less . Your a rarity and I would bet you only have one vehicle as well which is not the norm either
The "LOLCANADA" thread...again Quote
10-11-2024 , 06:26 PM
You get what an "average" is - right?!?
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10-11-2024 , 06:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by uke_master
You get what an "average" is - right?!?
Yes but it should be based on only folks that drive . Let’s be honest the carbon tax is nothing more than wealth redistribution
The "LOLCANADA" thread...again Quote
10-11-2024 , 07:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lozen
Yes but it should be based on only folks that drive .
So you think the "Average" should not be an average it should just be an average of, uh, only the people who drive a lot?

Plenty of people in cities (remember rural people get a 20% bonus on the rebate) can and do drive less than 15.2k a year. Heck in BC there is bonuses for driving less than 10k and a bigger bonus for driving less than 5k. As 3/4 of Canadians live in one of three major urban centers you shouldn't be shocked that the average for Canadians is lower than your own personal existence. Think outside your box.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lozen
Yes Let’s be honest the carbon tax is nothing more than wealth redistribution
Well, yes, it does redistribute money from the wealthy (who use lots of carbon) to the poor (who don't use lots of carbon). Why exactly is that a bad thing?
The "LOLCANADA" thread...again Quote
10-12-2024 , 02:52 AM
uke shouldn't you want the carbon tax to take money from Canadians? I don't get why you spend all your time defending that it is making Canadians money. If the carbon tax is net neutral or negative how does it help climate change? If they are gonna do it they should at least do it right and that involves taxing people and not pretending to tax people. anyway the real question is if its doing anything and obviously its not its too small scale. So I guess its your end goal to increase it until it does? anyway half my family lost their job from a pulp plant that's closing . I do worry if its related
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10-12-2024 , 10:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoViN.tArGeT
uke shouldn't you want the carbon tax to take money from Canadians? I don't get why you spend all your time defending that it is making Canadians money. If the carbon tax is net neutral or negative how does it help climate change? If they are gonna do it they should at least do it right and that involves taxing people and not pretending to tax people. anyway the real question is if its doing anything and obviously its not its too small scale. So I guess its your end goal to increase it until it does? anyway half my family lost their job from a pulp plant that's closing . I do worry if its related
Your right there should be no rebates if you truly cared about climate change

As a newcomer to BC I have heard alot about how Eddy has destroyed the forestry industry. Don't get me going on the Jasper Fire and the federal governments incompetence on forestry management
The "LOLCANADA" thread...again Quote
10-12-2024 , 10:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoViN.tArGeT
uke shouldn't you want the carbon tax to take money from Canadians? I don't get why you spend all your time defending that it is making Canadians money. If the carbon tax is net neutral or negative how does it help climate change? If they are gonna do it they should at least do it right and that involves taxing people and not pretending to tax people. anyway the real question is if its doing anything and obviously its not its too small scale. So I guess its your end goal to increase it until it does?
The point is to create an incentive to convert from a high-carbon usage lifestyle to a low carbon usage lifestyle. The average can return all the money to the people so this isn't funding government operations, but for all the decisions people make (should I buy a gas guzzling truck or a small EV? Should I live far from work or close to work? Should I buy a 3000sq gas heated home in the burbs? Should I fly multiple times a year?), there is now a big incentive to choose the low carbon option. Under the carbon tax while it is more or less neutral on average, it hurts high carbon rich people and helps low carbon poor people.

In an ideal world the economic consequences (not fiscal) of doing that would be zero. But of course any type of market intervention in a capital market comes with some level of economic inefficiencies. So it is a really really good thing that the PBO reported that the economic costs to the GDP from the carbon tax are HALF what was previously reported. It means we get that great incentive to change behaviours without really crippling economic consequences. And that is measuring "apples to nothing", against a plan of doing absolutely nothing on climate change.

Now the current plan cuts 13 megatonnes a year going up to 2030. That's an important plank in a comprehensive plan to lower canada's emissions and if you scrap the tax you have to find some other (probably much more expensive) way to replace those cuts. Yes, it does need to increase a little every year tightening the screws and right now it rises every year to 2030, presumably we keep going after that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MoViN.tArGeT
anyway half my family lost their job from a pulp plant that's closing . I do worry if its related
No, the carbon tax is nowhere near the top issue to BC's softwood lumber challenges. #1 are american tarrifs.
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10-12-2024 , 10:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lozen
Your right there should be no rebates if you truly cared about climate change
Lol no. That would 10x the COST to people of the carbon tax without changing the incentive! You'd save the identical amount of money from lowering your carbon usage with or without the rebates. That would provide billions and billions to government revenue to be spent on other things which may or may not be debatable, but if you wanted to increase the incentives the carbon tax imposes you should increase the tax, not stop the rebate.
The "LOLCANADA" thread...again Quote
10-13-2024 , 03:15 AM
I actually quite like 90% of the carbon tax I did a bit more research. I just hate that its hurting us compete with the usa and other major powers who don't have a tax at the same time were struggling to keep up. I don't think it should be a huge election deal that they are trying to make it out to be. Its not important at all from the numbers ive looked at except for the later issue I wonder about which I couldn't find much about
The "LOLCANADA" thread...again Quote
10-13-2024 , 09:29 AM
Trudeaus minions are starting to revolt
The "LOLCANADA" thread...again Quote
10-13-2024 , 02:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoViN.tArGeT
I actually quite like 90% of the carbon tax I did a bit more research. I just hate that its hurting us compete with the usa and other major powers who don't have a tax at the same time were struggling to keep up. I don't think it should be a huge election deal that they are trying to make it out to be. Its not important at all from the numbers ive looked at except for the later issue I wonder about which I couldn't find much about
I just don’t get why many being against carbon tax aren’t just favouring the free market on carbon that for example quebec is part of ……
If they really believe in climate changes needing a response and are for the principle of free market always being the right solution .
The "LOLCANADA" thread...again Quote
10-14-2024 , 11:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montrealcorp
I just don’t get why many being against carbon tax aren’t just favouring the free market on carbon that for example quebec is part of ……
If they really believe in climate changes needing a response and are for the principle of free market always being the right solution .
Folks are just sick of Justin . I saw CTV were 1/3 or 1/2 of the folks that voted for him want him gone. People are just tired of all the scandals and I think when he removed the carbon tax on home heating oil to buy votes in Atlantic Canada he lost any credibility he had left

You have 30 MP's that are revolting and calling for him to resign. What shocked me is the fact the PM does not have wifi on his plane and never heard the news about the revolt till they landed in Hawaii to refuel

I just cant see him as the leader moving forward
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10-14-2024 , 03:30 PM
Lmao it’s hilarious obvious jokes like the wifi thing get picked up by lozen as a true fact he actually believes
The "LOLCANADA" thread...again Quote
10-14-2024 , 03:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by uke_master
Lmao it’s hilarious obvious jokes like the wifi thing get picked up by lozen as a true fact he actually believes

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/thou...ucus-1.7072846

Quote:
After 13 hours of flying, the prime minister’s plane stopped in Hawaii to refuel. The turbulence hit as soon as the government plane landed. Upon landing, the phones of staffers accompanying Trudeau buzzed with texts and emails.

Quote:
Trudeau does have internet access, although there is no Wi-Fi access in other areas of the plane.
Sorry if I believe CTV news when they said he had no wifi


You actually believe Trudeau survives till the next campaign?

Last edited by lozen; 10-14-2024 at 04:07 PM.
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10-15-2024 , 11:19 AM
Oh wow, inflation down to 1.6%!!!!!

It’ll fall further as interest rates plummet, since mortgage interest is one of the things still propping up that 1.6%.

Credit where credit is due: Trudeau has slain inflation. The rest of the g7 is playing catch up.
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10-15-2024 , 12:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by uke_master
Oh wow, inflation down to 1.6%!!!!!

It’ll fall further as interest rates plummet, since mortgage interest is one of the things still propping up that 1.6%.

Credit where credit is due: Trudeau has slain inflation. The rest of the g7 is playing catch up.
Yet Canada's GDP growth has fallen 7 quarters in a row . Do we blame Trudeau for that?
The "LOLCANADA" thread...again Quote
10-15-2024 , 01:07 PM
You mean the rate of change of growth? Because Canada's GDP is GROWING not FALLING, and Canada's GDP growth is actually 2nd best in the g7!!!!!!! I presume you are giving Trudeau credit for that? Even if you do mean that, the fact that 7 quarters ago Canada has a local maximum on GDP growth, it hasn't fallen consistently since then, it's just that it never attained that high again. So deceptive.

Of course high interest rates are meant to cool the inflated market to tamp down on inflation, the real goal is for a "soft landing" i.e. to get inflation down below the target (CHECK! DONE! Thanks Trudeau!) while not hurting the economy too poorly while doing so. So far it seems this has been managed well, but of course a recession could be just around the corner so too soon to say exactly. The years of above-average GPD growth might well be due for a correction.
The "LOLCANADA" thread...again Quote
10-15-2024 , 02:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lozen
Yet Canada's GDP growth has fallen 7 quarters in a row . Do we blame Trudeau for that?
It’s like fighting climate changes while rising your oil consumption .
Good luck .
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10-15-2024 , 05:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montrealcorp
It’s like fighting climate changes while rising your oil consumption .
Good luck .
If Trudeau isn’t responsible for inflation running out of control how can you credit him for lowering inflation?
The "LOLCANADA" thread...again Quote
10-15-2024 , 07:20 PM
The problem lozen - which shouldn't need to be spelled out to you - is that certain people ITT have a certain tendency to endlessly blame trudeau for every single thing when it is "bad", and then refuse to give an iota of credit when it is "good". It shouldn't be so hard to cheer when something good happens.
The "LOLCANADA" thread...again Quote
10-16-2024 , 12:22 AM
letting him run again is a strategic mistake they could learn from the states here. I do think a minority government is possible for them if he steps down
The "LOLCANADA" thread...again Quote
10-16-2024 , 01:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lozen
If Trudeau isn’t responsible for inflation running out of control how can you credit him for lowering inflation?
By increasing the Canadian dollar value (higher interest rates ), reducing demands (lowering the economy or cutting down incomes ) increasing supply or increasing productivity .

Fwiw it’s not so much Trudeau reduced inflation , it’s more about worldwide inflation is coming down (higher interest rates did worked worldwide) and u can see Trudeau policies didn’t changed much but inflation is coming hard for 2 years now .
Hence inflation surely wasn’t Trudeau sole doing but at least Trudeau didn’t exacerbated inflation and in actuality in did fairly well comparing worldwide .

My point was -> u can’t blame Trudeau doing a bad job economically while disregarding the fight on inflation .
Inflation and economic growth works in tandem .
Thinking you can bring down high inflation without hurting the economy somewhat ( lowering demands) is not realistic like fighting climate changes and keep rising fossil fuel consumption .
The "LOLCANADA" thread...again Quote
10-16-2024 , 01:09 AM
Biden stepping down is the super rare exception (and an exception that doesn’t apply as it was related to age, not just bad polls). Around the world, unpopular PMs destined to lose (ex Harper in 2015) stay on and there is something bravely stoic about it. No last ditch Hail Mary to scramble and doom some other sod to that inevitable defeat and subsequent elimination from politics. Instead, standing up, running on your record and ideas and if after a decade the population has soured against you well you go down with your ship as every leader has to.

Maybe if I thought there was some hope of a minority win under someone else I’d feel differently, but I really don’t think there is, so I see no point in stepping down. Maybe his hand will be forced too.
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