Maybe you are just projecting that I'm going to knee jerk be supportive the way you are knee jerk in opposition? Not at all. It's that most of my criticisms of trudeau are about substantive issues of policy that actually affect Canada - as I've explained several times in this thread - opposed to focusing on personality issues like "entitled attitude" or harping on minor scandals.

For instance, I dislike the two rounds of big tax cuts. Conservatives should LOVE that, but I don't. I dislike the support for pipelines. Conservatives should LOVE that, but I don't. I dislike how he did nothing to reverse the harper era slashes to corporate taxes. Conservatives should LOVE that, but I don't. I dislike how the carbon tax is kept too small, and is too market based in its approach. Conservatives that don't deny climate change should LOVE that, but I don't. I dislike how his approach to childcare is basically repacking conservatives ideas. Conservatives should LOVE that, but I don't. I dislike how he has failed to expand government programs into areas like pharmacy, dental, fertility, etc. Conservatives should LOVE that, but I don't. I dislike the focus on corporate supports in the coronavirus response. Conservatives should LOVE that, but I don't.

I have a feeling we'll be hearing about money the Liberals shoveled to their cronies during the pandemic for years to come.

That one baffles me that him of all people has so much popularity. Though Quebecers puzzle me . Though Quebec City has to be one of the most beautiful cities I have visited

Kenney I get other than Covid his performance has been poor. Sadly no politician wants to tell Albertan's the cold hard truth

IM sure Justin was on the phone last night with his mom letting her know" Its OK Mom I apologized again you can keep the $300,000

$75,000 a year for 4 years to speak nice gig . Though Justin knew nothing about it.

The thing I do not get is Why Was the government not capable of handing out this money themselves? They seem to be doing fine with all the programs like CERB. That one blew me away an old system that went smoothly

As well this article asks some great questions that need to be answered
https://www.macleans.ca/politics/ott...ecisions_Wells

Remember when lozen was mad and brought up over and over and over about the lack of apologizing on SNC? This time trudeau makes an appropriate and humble apology, and lozen still shits all over it.

It's totally fine for the federal government to contract out things, especially to charities, especially when trying to move at lightspeed to deliver an insane amount of programs that would normally take a decade to build in a few months. There is nothing wrong with that, by all accounts the civil service is absolutely ****ing swamped right now. There is nothing wrong with sole sourcing either, as harper conservatives so loved. This charity was well known in the PMO, hardly just from trudeau, and yes he should have made sure to dot the is and cross the ts by recusing himself from cabinet, I'm glad he apologized for this minor mistake, but we're going to need to see some significant movement for this to become a more serious issue.

No I get upset at how long it takes him to apologize and the fact is rinse and repeat plus I do not lose sleep over it or really get that angry. I know that chances are he may win again . Chances are the Conservatives would be a disappointment as well . Funny thing is probably agree on more than we disagree other that Donald Trudeau I mean Justin

I am not going to go back to SNC .

He hid in his cottage till more of the We thing came out. HIs apology was great he is a drama teacher by trade. Trump could learn alot from him.

I think if this would be his first ethics violation you may be right. Like I said I just do not know why this had to be contracted out and was WE really the only organization qualified?
Or was it the only organization run by Justin's friend paying his family?

Go Raptors

Trump is actually a tremendous speaker and persuader. It's how he steam rolled a stacked Republican field and a Clinton. He can speak down to his base at a rally then go sound Presidential at a SOTU address. Trudeau just sounds like a pompous ass all the time.

AS much as I dislike Trudeau not even I believe one word of what you said. Trump could be leading and riding the easy train to victory if he just did the exact job Trudeau has done with Covid

There's nothing to believe, it's fact. You think Trudeau could have beat the competition Trump was up against last election?

Canada and USA are very different countries so it's dumb to compare pandemic responses. But what do you think Trudeau has done better?

I am saying if Trump had done what Trudeau had done he be leading big time.

Trudeau basically let his health folks speak and wasn't ranting about the Chinese Virus and wasn't in a rush to reopen and for masks and just said he was supporting the provinces and would help whenever he could. I get that Republicans would never authorize $2000 to regular folks.

When it comes to Covid the majority of folks think Trudeau handled it well and of course they would use Trump as the comparison.

Not sure that Jeb!!!!!! or lose with Cruz were what anyone would call impressive opponents. Trump definitely got helped with the weak array of opponents, and while Clinton would have been a significantly better president and not killed as many as Trump did with his choices, the fact is she was a pretty weak candidate at a time where Trump did tap into a segment of the population with his routines, which were on trend and fresh in 2016. Not so much in 2020.

We will see if he can duplicate that. Not as easy when he was a pretty horrid president for a few years, but he has a weak opponent again, and I have to agree with Lozen (and that is not common) in that if Trump made even a few choices that were not completely idiotic with the pandemic then he pretty much cannot lose, but he has the talent to change a race that was 60/40+ in his favor in the betting markets to being a 60/40+ underdog vs a really old 77 year old (hard to imagine Fauci is older than Biden). Hopefully Trump will continue to snag defeat from the jaws of victory, and if he loses big and costs the republicans the Senate as well then it will be mildly fun to see how many talk about how bad Trump was all along and they were just there to keep him from doing real damage etc.

Unrelated, weren't you the one that thought Florida was the dream place to live? Any updates on that?

All the best.

Yeah legault really dropped the ball.

THough Like Uke says he has the highest popularity and Quebec thinks he has done a great job. Add in Bill 21 and I am baffled

Also as much as Kenney has done a great job in Alberta with Covid he may be a one term premier. The rest has been a joke

I actually agree. Trump being a complete moron means a lot of the left discounts him, and Trudeau saying the "right" things most of he time. But Trump is a significantly better public speaker to his base than Trudeau is to trudeau's base. He's entertaining as **** at a rally. He has great command for pacing/rhetoric/emphasis etc. He's great at identifying wedge issues and selling narratives about his hot takes on them. In contrast, trudeau has this unnatural sanitized speaking style.

An example of this is that trudeau is smart enough that he can shift his speaking style, and they train him on that. I do'nt know if you guys were paying close attention back in the day to the leadership race when he rose to prominence, but he sounds completely different today than before. Trump couldn't change his speaking style if he wanted to. Nevertheless, he has an extremely effective natural style.

What are the specific list of flaws he has done? I'm not saying there aren't or even aren't many, but the sense I have is we look at the quebec covid numbers being the worst in the country and it's easy to say omg dropped the ball. But Canada was pretty consisted province to province on their timelines and rollouts of measures, quebec just started significantly worse off because of fundamentals. It's similar to how the huge blowup in new york first not, say, chicago didn't mean new york's governor was necessarily way worse than illinois'.

For example, one big issues that I believe BC and Quebec shared was a culture of workers in care homes that would work in many care homes. This really contributed to the spread from care home to care home and was disasterous, but it was a super, super thorny problem to solve. Ok, should we blame the premiers for that?

Agree 100 %

Back to the WE thing . I think this WE and ME thing is going to get worse. Just my gut but I think were gonna see some of the leaders of this charity raking in the cash personally.

The divieristy, inclusion and youth minister spoke in front of the finance committee today, and basically laid out what I've found out more or less what I said earlier in this thread.

Public service made the recommendation:
She didn't get this from trudeau or morneau:
This was an appropriate recommendation:
Sole-sourcing made sense for the timelines:
The civil service is swamped, hence the outsourcing:
We is huge, and not many other obvious partners:
She wasn't aware of trudeau's familys connections:
************************************************** ***************

If you believe the above, this is tells exactly the story I've been saying from the beginning. The government acted completely appropriately, and while trudeau should have recused himself from that decision, that is a fairly minor mistake.

If you don't believe the above - i.e. that this minister is purely lying about all of this despite the threat of conflict of interest investigation and insane media and opposition scrutiny that would undoubtably reveal those lies - what specific evidence do you have otherwise?

-his tone went from exuberance to finally some caution and concern
-he began covid with nationalistic hubris
-he has flip flopped at least twice on reopening Montreal
-failed in may to get a handle on a massive community outbreak in mtl
-played on linguistic divisions

There is a lot more I'm unaware of and/or not going to get into. To answer you question:yes we should absolutely blame the premier. Just as we should praise the premiers whose provinces are doing well. It may be dumb luck, but they are in charge and they deserve the credit or the criticism.

If my sales team performs worst nationally then you can bet I'm going to get decimated regardless of any factors that are out of my control. Being in charge means being accountable.

There are a ton of good points here. There all made by the Honorable Bardish Chagger.

Though when asked would you provide any evidence that Public Service made that recommendation she diverted to one of her. "We just want to help students and children"

When asked if Justin had communicated with WE prior to awarding the contract " We just wanted to get ther support out as quickly as possible to the students and children"

Also it is the liberals telling us no one could administer this but WE

Also now its not 20 million they were getting but 43 million....

Ill give the Bardish lady a compliment that when asked a question she does not want to answer she can ramble on for minutes saying nothing


Let me ask you this One of Trudeau's campaign promises was Transparency.
Than why not testify before the committee full disclosure no cabinet privilege like they did with SNC

Its like you watch a husband plea for help finding his missing wife on TV and you go " He did it" and a week later he is arrested.

It wouldn't be the first charity were a bulk of the cash ends up in the founders pocket.


Let me add I thought the Deputy Prime Ministers apology was heart felt. No question she is waiting in the wings for Justin's job

Ok. Well, looks like we should start criticizing Kenney then:

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/corona...ning-1.5028824

Nope its Trudeau's fault ( just kidding)
Damn right we should if the numbers keep climbing. I want a mask policy. Let's get these numbers down


Though 100 new cases here 75,000 today in our neighbor to the south .


You have to love the Liberals today philibusting any questions on WE

Does anyone actually care about WE? No of course they don't.

The prairie derps will be in a world of hurt in a week or so I feel

My goodness Bonnie Henry is the ****ing apex legend. Absolutely perfect and emotional call for decriminalizing minor quantities of drugs as the opioid epidemic is claiming more than covid in BC. A+ over and over to her.

Still catching up on the day. Chrystia Freeland is also a ****ing boss. To bad she couldn't have been PM over trudeau. Anyways, definitely appreciated her remarks today they were appropriately humble. Trudeau government has always been interesting in that unlike harper PMO, both Freeland and Morneau have enormous amounts of political power and freedom to set policy, it's one of the things I appreciate that it is a little less centralized around the PM.

Than you question should be does anyone care about ethics and the rule of law.


I certainly do when Justin's friend runs a charity that on the surface looks like a great idea but pays his family over $300,000 a year and is linked to ME.

I still remember when the conservatives wanted Scheer gone they leaked the private school thing. Wonder if the liberals ever get to that point with Freeland just waiting.