No I said I would vote for whatever conservative candidate there is if Trudeau is the leader of the Liberals .

No I have been clear when they started blocking border crossings that the police should use whatever the means available to clear them out

As I have been consistent I do not support the truckers blockades and I do not support the emergencies act. As well I blame Trudeau for creating the problem which he did. It was never Trudeaus job to fix this problem it was a provincial and municipal problem

I stand by JT needs a haircut

Hey Justin drew me into the liberal party in 2016 and I would say over the years drove me to the conservative party with 8 years of doing next to nothing

This is a very fair assessment of how things go down on matters like this.

There is no way to do these things that will escape criticism. Every choice made had a counter point criticism inherent to it. So the best method is often the most expedient that will get it done the quickest to allow the media cycle to turn the page.

Best example being Biden's leaving of Afghanistan. Every which way he could have executed has built in inherent flaws that will be leveraged in hindsight, but in the end he got out quickly and with no US causalities, allowing the page to turn. Lots to criticize, if someone wants to but that would have been the case with any other choice too. Especially staying longer and missing another deadline (as some said he should have done) that would have then perhaps resulting in the Taliban killing US troops, and then the same people saying 'why did not he not honour the Trump deadlines and deals and just get out? Could he not foresee this?

I am no Trudeau fan. Not even a little bit. I stand two steps behind lozen in my disdain for him, as one of the worst instances of Old Time liberal Quebecois politics that is all geared around an elite class with only empty platitudes for the masses. But the gov't got this removal right. They did a good job. They gave the protestors more than enough leash to flex their 'rights' at the expense of others and then they got them to leave. Job well done.

Except your provincial conservative buddies in Alberta and Ontario both implored the federal government to act because they didn't think they could solve this on their own. The conservative caucus was a little more torn, they couldn't figure out whether to be mad at Trudeau for not acting or just full fledge support the truckers, but I don't recall hearing a single conservative politician say "this is a problem and needs to stop, but it is totally provincial and Trudeau is correct to do nothing to fix it".

A large number of convoy trucks who utterly failed to #holdtheline and bailed when **** got real are now camped out at a truck stop 100km outside of Ottawa. Remember, the minute the emergencies act measures are lifted, all these people can drive right back along public roads and do it all again. As the police said repeatedly, being able to clear out Ottawa was not possible with out the twin emergency declaration (provincial and federal). Maybe you know more than the interim police chief. But right now the emergencies act is helping.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...uckers-protest

What's the Canadian view on this part?

That seems wild to me. Even if you support using those measures against these protesters, don't you have to be concerned about them being used by a future government you don't agree with?

The money around this is going to be pretty dirty in every sense of the word. Millions were raised that I assume will never get to the protesters on the front line as promised. How and why money was funneled to create this has to be an issue as well - was it truly organic or was it more a funded campaign. I suspect the money will be a bigger issue than the protests, since they were basically protesting things that were going to be removed in a couple weeks (announced well before any of these protests happened). I do not see this being a story about what they were protesting in the future, because again they were protesting for a change that was going to happen. The story will be the funding and the reasons why this happened. Note, most of the people out there were genuine. Do I agree with their politics? Nah, but they were genuine. I think they got played and used as happens quite often these days.

Not really sure what to say about the punitive things they faced as they were given many, many, many, many opportunities to move along. I think many of the people out there were patsies that will be left out to dry and fend for themselves when they have no real means to do that. I do not agree with their anti-vaxxish message, but I do believe the people in the streets for the most part were there for genuine reasons, so it will be a bit of a shame to see them bear the brunt of the costs while many that made bank by using them for their messaging will not share their donated wealth, nor face any similar consequences. I cannot see this being a factor in the next federal election in a few years from now. Provincial ones - no idea. They going to blame Ford?

Viewed abt 45% of that, nobody is blaming Ford. The money IS the story here absolutely the marks are there for the taking everytime. What's great about newer campaigns is the targeting has never been more acute. People in the streets for sure mostly "innocents" as in duped

What do you guys mean exactly when you say the money is dirty or the story? Are you saying that nefarious characters are donating the money, or that bad actors are collecting the money and the government's concern is that donated money wouldn't end up where it was intended?

I doubt that the government is that concerned whether the money donated on rando sites is going to the truckers. There might be some fraud issues there, like the Bannon stealing donations for his boat thing, but this would not be a "fight for the poor truckers" thing.

The majority of the donations came from outside Canada. Some people were flown around to attend rallies. Good chance a lot of money raised and spent was not done purely for the good of the truckers that were there on the streets, and that will be more a topic of debate than the remove mandates that were already going away in the near future thing.

No idea how "nefarious" the characters were behind the scenes, but do I think many used the truckers for their own political agendas and a month from now will barely remember them? Sure. Not like Ted Cruz who talked about them is going to visit them any time ever. Just politics in the end, and the rando truckers on the street will be left with arrest records and a huge bill to pay and as they look back to their past vocal supporters for some help - well, we will see how that process goes.

Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II is our Head of State and the prime minister serves At Her Majesty's pleasure. As Her Majesty's representative in Canada, the G-G can definitely remove the prime minister.

That sounds like some George Soros conspiracy-type thinking. Even if some money was donated by say people in the US, how does it then make sense to freeze the bank accounts of the truckers?

what I quite appreciate about the application of this law is that rather unlike some conservative characterizations of “Marshall law”, it is extremely targeted with specific measures to address specific issues related to these occupations and blockades. So from a slippery slope perspective what we have as a historical precedent is extremely judicious and narrow application of the law, which is appropriate as a precedent for the future. Mass foreign crowdfunded millions of dollars to support illegal occupations and blockaids causing tens of millions in damages is a new element of protests we haven’t experienced before (similar to using semis to blockade public spaces for weeks on end) and that is going to take a long time to unpack and figure out appropriate laws to deal with in the long term. For now we have an immediate crisis that the act let us deal with effectively. Finally, after weeks, people in Ottawa can sleep soundly.

Yup
Sadly .

It never happened before and never will .
Especially since 1982 with the new constitution.

I mean harper close twice the parlement to not go in election and she G-G) agree with him ….even tho a coalition of the opposition could of govern the country ….

And furthermore why the queen would ever intervene in Canada lol .
That isn’t how democracy works .
She isn’t involve in British politics …

An what would happen with a similar Canadian trump politician would emerge and just slightly adjust the ideology of this law , with a majority ?

I wouldn’t like to be in the other side .

Having to use this kind law is an admission of failure but the occupying government officials.

Like what happened in 2012 in Quebec vs the student moment .

Well if they didn't want their accounts frozen they shouldn't have blocked CN rail lines.

I'm not positive if this still holds true under the current constitution (IE if doing so without extreme circumstances would hold up in court), but that doesn't change the fact that the chance of this happening based on angry emails is zero. It would take a massive crisis for that kind of power to be wielded by the G-G.

Behind pretty democracy there is still a monopoly of violence, and the measures they can use are purposefully broad. This is why things such a no-confidence votes or impeachment processes exist. Instead of limiting these broad powers (it isn't that hard to imagine scenarios where they are necessary), we instead have systems where we can punish their unnecessary application.

Of course, when you purposefully use civil disobedience as a form of protest, running afoul of the law and getting hauled in by law enforcement is a predictable outcome. Even without looking it up, I can pretty much guarantee that Canada has had plenty of environmental protesters being scurried away by police over the years. Civil disobedience generally exists in a weird political paradox; largely seen as necessary to accept and necessary to reject.

I'd say the Canada government has been fairly patient with this protest. Civil disobedience was accepted for three weeks, even when knowing that radical elements were present both on the ground and among organizers. Then they find a cache of weapons, and what was likely a planned contingency gets put into motion rather quickly.

There is plenty of blame to dish out on the organizers. If we believe news reports, it was a fairly commonly held belief on the ground that the police had no right or course to legally remove or arrest those present. Given that the organizers have purposefully encouraged civil disobedience, allowing these lies to be perpetuated is pretty damn stupid and a disservice to the participants. Pretty much the first you thing you should do if you want to use civil disobedience is to be truthful to participants about what you are doing and potential legal ramifications.

I am not sure I see the large concern you do.

If, for instance, Canadian intelligence saw this trucker protest becoming a proxy for US money derp wars and creating an insurgency in Canada, by flooding money in to the zone to tilt outcomes towards more nefarious goals and to draw more people to act upon them, that US interests could benefit from, I don't see it, then, as over reach by Canada to prevent that money coming in. I look it like US elections not allowing Canadian (or other foreign) money in.

The message being this is a domestic issue, and not an international play toy.

As someone who works in a prominent position in the canadian film and news brodcasting industry, the CBC get's almost all of their
budget from the Canadian Government, don't make facts partisan, you don't know what. you are talking about.

Hey, if you cannot trust a rando with 3 posts (first one an anti-Trudeau one) when he/she/other says that he/she/other is prominent in the broadcasting industry then who can you trust!

Anyway, a disproportionate amount of money coming in from the US is not part of some grand conspiracy. The US has 10 times the people and a lot more derps as a percentage, and since this event has been covered quite a bit on Fox and other alt-right sources - well, it was logical that people would set up funding sites for it (gotta milk them derps) and by sheer math a much larger than expected amount of donations will be coming from US sources for an otherwise relatively nothingburger protest within Canada.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/cana...o-fund-convoy/

This data is just for Feb 1-10, but it shows that the US accounts for nearly half the monetary donations in that time, but 51,666 donations were registered as coming from the U.S., 56 per cent of the total. Canada, in contrast, was the stated country of origin for 36,202 donations.

The USA has more derps that are willing to toss money around that will likely never get to the truckers themselves. The article points out

The data also seem to indicate how much GiveSendGo itself received from donors. According to the file, GiveSendGo had earned at least US$572,748 in “tips” from donors by Feb. 10.

Not bad - $600,000ish in "tips" to organize collecting money for truckers that likely will never get to the truckers, and they did not spend any of that on data security as their databases of donors got hacked. People did get to write angry rants about mandates and Trudeau or gushing fantasies about Trump as they donate, so guess this site deserves its tips for providing those wooden boxes for the derps to digitally stand on. Quality stuff. Great industry.

I think you are going to get many viewpoints on this issue depending on peoples politics on this page

The facts are a majority of CDN's do not agree with the truckers blocking the border and what they are doing to the citizens of Ottawa. I would suggest in the 80-90% . Though there is a bunch of sympathy for the truckers.
Most of the money 55% is coming from the USA

We have no polls on using the emergency act but I would say that is very split. Our ACLU says the government overstepped its boundaries as have legal experts. Most of the borders were cleared with out the emergency act . I think the only one here in the LOL Canada thread that supports the Emergency Act is Uke. I am not sure if Monteroy supports the use of the act

Monteroy does make a good point about almost a guarantee that the funds would face fraud. Just look at the funds in the USA for BLM and Occupy Seattle both of those experienced fraud

https://www.wsj.com/articles/justin-...st-11645223027


Imagine if Trump had called in the military for Seattle Occupation and froze all the bank accounts of everyone participating and seized their vehicles.


Also note that if your watching US news on this neither Fox or CNN are giving you an honest portrayal of whats going on.

Many would question some of our media as well especially as some are fully funded by the government and many partially subsidized.

Heh, you almost went a post without a whatabout, but you did sneak a few in at the end .

As to the Emergency Act - not sure what I think about it. It exists and was legal to use, so I cannot say anything was technically wrong in that regard, but I also think challenging its use is a valid plan for those who want to do that, and if the act gets modified or changed as a result, that is healthy.

I think enough warning and time was given to the patsies sitting in the trucks that the nastier elements of this (bank accounts frozen however that really works) will not be as dramatic as they would like. They had weeks and it was hardly a surprise, as this stuff was telegraphed for them clearly. Unfortunately for them - they got pumped up by people not even there (who were making bank fundraising for the "cause") encouraging them to hold the line or whatever. Many of the trucker patsies likely think they will get compensated for their time and effort on the front lines by the companies that received a ton in "tips" that raised money by using them. Not hard to see how that will go, though will be interesting to see if the truckers resonate as victims or not at that time when they talk about how they were duped. Hard to really predict, but I would lean toward no.

Yes, we all know how hard you get when you see your government using force.

What's the #holdtheline talk? Every conservative source I follow has been saying it's time to leave. Canada's biggest "alt-right derp" Jordan Peterson even posted a video to social media telling the truckers it might be time to go.

Yeah, the above is a great example of what I am talking about. A derpy alt-right American doing some selective editing of the situation to monetize the derps that follow him. Gee, I wonder how much he will directly give any of the truckers that he features in his little production. Heh.

All the best.