I’m really enjoying this talking point from conservatives. Good to know conservatives don’t actually want an opportunity to defeat Trudeau and can’t lay out any rationale as to why they should try to defeat him. Instead it is just empty whining that our democracy is doing its thing.
Cases up 68% past 7 days over previous 7, and deaths down 29% with a whopping 1 dead per million. Uke is ofc right how abt funny cons are being rn as if they gaf abt anything other than a potential loss in a few weeks
Ofc deaths lag tho so we will see
Last edited by nutella virus; 08-14-2021 at 12:43 PM.
I’m really enjoying this talking point from conservatives. Good to know conservatives don’t actually want an opportunity to defeat Trudeau and can’t lay out any rationale as to why they should try to defeat him. Instead it is just empty whining that our democracy is doing its thing.
Conservatives as in the current state of the conservative party have no chance of beating Trudeau. O'Toole may be a great candidate but the problem is they cater to the extreme right. Reality is they need to be for pro choice, LGQBT rights and climate change if they want to become relevant.
That still does not take away from the point calling an election now is irresponsible
Reality is Uke can not provide a case to vote for Trudeau other than O'toole is bad the same strategy Trudeau is using.
Reality is Uke can not provide a case to vote for Trudeau other than O'toole is bad the same strategy Trudeau is using.
this is a weird post. Like really weird. Haven’t I spoken like dozens and dozens of times ITT that my primary political issue is climate change, and my support of the liberal government is because they introduced a big carbon tax policy, and have continued to entrench and strengthen it throughout their second mandate. I’ve voted green and NDP and liberal plenty of times and haven’t done the riding specific analysis yet to know which of those I will do this time, but it will largely be based on the seriousness of their climate change proposals.
How on earth you got from this consistent message from me to only having bad things to say about o’toole (who I barely talk about ITT) is just really weird.
this is a weird post. Like really weird. Haven’t I spoken like dozens and dozens of times ITT that my primary political issue is climate change, and my support of the liberal government is because they introduced a big carbon tax policy, and have continued to entrench and strengthen it throughout their second mandate. I’ve voted green and NDP and liberal plenty of times and haven’t done the riding specific analysis yet to know which of those I will do this time, but it will largely be based on the seriousness of their climate change proposals.
How on earth you got from this consistent message from me to only having bad things to say about o’toole (who I barely talk about ITT) is just really weird.
Its like you inferring I am right wing conservative. If climate change was your main issue you should be voting NDP. You keep saying O'Tooles climate change strategy is a joke yet
Trudeau's climate strategy is pathetic
Carbon tax which is nothing more than a conservative tax
Bought a pipeline
Allows Quebec and BC to dump massive amounts of raw sewage into the ocean
Allows BC ports to export USA coal that California, Washington and Oregon ban
When asked what he does personally top combat climate change
I've addressed every one of your oft-repeated list of talking points previously. I don't care to do so again right now. All I'm asking is you don't misrepresent me. I've clearly laid out ITT how I support the liberal government because they have successfully completed their largest campaign plank - one I strongly support - in the carbon tax. That is, my support is primarily a positive case for a specific policy. Just because you saw an attack ad against O'Toole doesn't mean you can transplant that on me.
You may have not noticed yet, but he seems to not like Trudeau...
Given that he has predicted that he will not win a majority government, the odds are he will win a majority government, so Lozen will enjoy being angry for years to come. Win/win in a sense!
Not sure if I mentioned this, but Ontario is now releasing info based on vaccinated vs unvaccinated. The numbers change daily. Currently 53 unvaccinated in ICU and 1 vaccinated
I've addressed every one of your oft-repeated list of talking points previously. I don't care to do so again right now. All I'm asking is you don't misrepresent me. I've clearly laid out ITT how I support the liberal government because they have successfully completed their largest campaign plank - one I strongly support - in the carbon tax. That is, my support is primarily a positive case for a specific policy. Just because you saw an attack ad against O'Toole doesn't mean you can transplant that on me.
No you addressed O'tooles climate strategy as weak . That is not misrepresenting you. I am just pointing out Trudeaus climate strategy is not much different.
If you truly cared about the climate you would vote NDP though I do not know what riding you are in and if you have a strong NDP candidate. Your vote in BC may be strategic
Heck even Climate Barbie left as she knew his policies were weak
Reality is Trudeau is calling an election somewhere around were the delta wave will peak in the hopes of getting a majority. He is betting on Canadians will see him as doing a great job on Covid and ignoring all the other issues.
If we look at the last election the Conservatives had a weak candidate in Andrew Scheer and still picked up 20 seats and the popular vote. Will see were they end up.
Though if we end up with a similar minority O'Toole is done and Trudeau should be as well
I think Trudeau gets 2 seats in Alberta possibly as well
No you addressed O'tooles climate strategy as weak
It is. Laughably so. But you said I couldn't "provide a case to vote for Trudeau". Not so. I support his government because I support a specific major policy issue of his.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lozen
If you truly cared about the climate you would vote NDP
Are you saying you don't truly care about the climate as you won't vote NDP?
Circa 2015, I thought both the NDP and Liberal plans were decent. The NDP's was a cap and trade plan and the liberals was a carbon tax, which are different market based approaches to solve the same problem. I had some technocratic arguments at the time I could get into if needed as to why I think a carbon tax is the superior option would either would be a vast improvement on Harper's lost decade of utter inaction. But today we have spent a half decade building and entrenching one of those solutions, and I think we should generally reward parties that do excellent work in an initiative we support, even if we thought it wasn't ideal.
The NDP has a number of times put other values ahead of climate change. The opposed Ontario's feed-in-tarrif situation, put in place by Liberals. They opposed BC's excellent carbon tax, put in place by Liberals. It isn't that they are against climate change in general, they are, but they tend care about things like costs to the poor more, so it has a lot of tension with someone like me who thinks energy costs should be going up, a lot, on everyone. More on the rich, than the poor, but on everyone nonetheless. Officially they endorse the same bill C-12 that set the 2050 net zero target. So no, it isn't some obvious position that the NDP is superior to the liberals on climate change.
Like, you guys knew there was an election coming for months? You've got the lozen's of the world all out there spinning the talking points about how the meanie liberals are saying mean things about O'Toole....and this is the best response you could come up?
It's a good angle to take, criticizing the Liberals for calling the election; the second commercial does a decent job of that. The first one...ugh. Focusing on Trudeau himself likely works great for their own camp, but they need to do it in a way that doesn't makes them look like fools to everyone else - they're going to need a lot more than their hardcore supporters to have a shot at this.
It is. Laughably so. But you said I couldn't "provide a case to vote for Trudeau". Not so. I support his government because I support a specific major policy issue of his.
Are you saying you don't truly care about the climate as you won't vote NDP?
Circa 2015, I thought both the NDP and Liberal plans were decent. The NDP's was a cap and trade plan and the liberals was a carbon tax, which are different market based approaches to solve the same problem. I had some technocratic arguments at the time I could get into if needed as to why I think a carbon tax is the superior option would either would be a vast improvement on Harper's lost decade of utter inaction. But today we have spent a half decade building and entrenching one of those solutions, and I think we should generally reward parties that do excellent work in an initiative we support, even if we thought it wasn't ideal.
The NDP has a number of times put other values ahead of climate change. The opposed Ontario's feed-in-tarrif situation, put in place by Liberals. They opposed BC's excellent carbon tax, put in place by Liberals. It isn't that they are against climate change in general, they are, but they tend care about things like costs to the poor more, so it has a lot of tension with someone like me who thinks energy costs should be going up, a lot, on everyone. More on the rich, than the poor, but on everyone nonetheless. Officially they endorse the same bill C-12 that set the 2050 net zero target. So no, it isn't some obvious position that the NDP is superior to the liberals on climate change.
No I do believe in Climate change and do think its a major threat that may doom parts of this planet making those areas un-liveable. It may also create more refugees than some of these wars Though I also see it as a world problem.
You do realize that of the G7 countries Canada is the only one to increase its emissions. Even Trump lowered the USA's emissions not by his doing.
I would support any candidate that would have a serious climate strategy yet no party really has one.
If Trudeaus carbon tax allowed for rebates for anyone making under $50,000 and farmers and required you to keep track of the carbon taxes you paid and applied for a rebate . The Carbon Tax money that was collected than went into a pool that could only be used for climate strategies and was audited I would be for it
I would also support banning USA coal through our ports like Washington State, California and Oregon do. I would also support a partnership between the municipal, provincial and federal parties to treat the raw sewage being dumped into the Ocean by BC and Quebec.
The problem with the climate change message as well is we keep getting told we only have 10 years. Al Gore in his Movie in 2006 made many predictions which never came true, than 10- 15 years later we get told 10 more years.
I would support any candidate that would have a serious climate strategy yet no party really has one.
It's hard to believe you when you are voting for the party with - by far - the worst climate change strategy. A party that did nothing on climate change for a decade in power. A party whose own base rejected the claim that climate change is even happening despite the pleas from its feckless leader. A party whose leader proposed a nonsensical nothing plan that not even his own base wanted.
You simultaneously claim you care about climate strategy and vote for that? Git outta here.
Quote:
If Trudeaus carbon tax allowed for rebates for anyone making under $50,000 and farmers and required you to keep track of the carbon taxes you paid and applied for a rebate . The Carbon Tax money that was collected than went into a pool that could only be used for climate strategies and was audited I would be for it
These just make things worse. I'd be supportive of more wealth distribution to poor people (despite you voting for the party against this), but I wouldn't exempt them from the carbon tax! I want everybody to be shifting behaviours away from carbon intensive things, and this can be done separately from wealth redistribution from the rich to the poor. Farming can be extremely carbon intensive, and similarly we should want to provide incentives for farmers to embrace lower carbon farming techniques. As for a "rebate", this is by far the worst idea. If you get all the money back in a PetroPoints gift card or whatever, there is little to know incentive to actually do things that cut emissions. This is the crucial failing of the conservative plan (despite being much too small even if it worked as expected), it doesn't create any meaningful incentive structure. And it makes a ridiculous bureaucracy to have the government tracking all your purchases which seems like the most anti-conservative thing ever.
Quote:
The problem with the climate change message as well is we keep getting told we only have 10 years. Al Gore in his Movie in 2006 made many predictions which never came true, than 10- 15 years later we get told 10 more years.
You ****ers didn't listen in 2006 now did you? So we are now committed to a much, much worse trajectory. You voted for harpers decade of inaction on this....right? Today the choice isn't the same choice as it was in 2006. Yes, over the next decade we again get to decide between really bad trajectories and absolutely horrific ones, but this isn't a problem with climate activists messaging, it is a problem with political inaction.
It's hard to believe you when you are voting for the party with - by far - the worst climate change strategy. A party that did nothing on climate change for a decade in power. A party whose own base rejected the claim that climate change is even happening despite the pleas from its feckless leader. A party whose leader proposed a nonsensical nothing plan that not even his own base wanted.
You simultaneously claim you care about climate strategy and vote for that? Git outta here.
These just make things worse. I'd be supportive of more wealth distribution to poor people (despite you voting for the party against this), but I wouldn't exempt them from the carbon tax! I want everybody to be shifting behaviours away from carbon intensive things, and this can be done separately from wealth redistribution from the rich to the poor. Farming can be extremely carbon intensive, and similarly we should want to provide incentives for farmers to embrace lower carbon farming techniques. As for a "rebate", this is by far the worst idea. If you get all the money back in a PetroPoints gift card or whatever, there is little to know incentive to actually do things that cut emissions. This is the crucial failing of the conservative plan (despite being much too small even if it worked as expected), it doesn't create any meaningful incentive structure. And it makes a ridiculous bureaucracy to have the government tracking all your purchases which seems like the most anti-conservative thing ever.
You ****ers didn't listen in 2006 now did you? So we are now committed to a much, much worse trajectory. You voted for harpers decade of inaction on this....right? Today the choice isn't the same choice as it was in 2006. Yes, over the next decade we again get to decide between really bad trajectories and absolutely horrific ones, but this isn't a problem with climate activists messaging, it is a problem with political inaction.
First I never voted for Harper the last two times he ran
My point is if I lost my arm in a accident and O'Toole wants to put a band aid on it and Justin wants to put a bigger band aid on it . It really is not going to do much.
O'Toole has a weak climate strategy just like Justin
Did you miss the point Our emissions went up the only country in the G7 to do that.
My vote will be strategic it may even be NDP as I am in one of the contested ridings
Like, you guys knew there was an election coming for months? You've got the lozen's of the world all out there spinning the talking points about how the meanie liberals are saying mean things about O'Toole....and this is the best response you could come up?
This is no surprise since Biden is weak. I bet he regrets canceling the almost complete pipeline now.
Climate change being an issue this election is just dumb. Focus should be on things that Canada can actually control. Like inflation,high cost of living, jobs and cutting government spending/debt.
Still undecided on who to vote for, went with PPC last election because Scheer was such a dud, we'll see what happens once the campaigning really gets going.
NS is having a Provincial election tomorrow, will.be interesting to see what happens and if it has any effect on the Federal one.
Climate change being an issue this election is just dumb. Focus should be on things that Canada can actually control. Like inflation,high cost of living, jobs and cutting government spending/debt.
So true. We can't fix the problem by ourselves, so **** it. The world will sort itself out. And there's no way that we can deal with inflation, high cost of living, jobs, cutting government spending/debt, AND climate change. That's just too much for one little country.
