I’m in Ontario and clearly the education system here has a lot of fat that can be trimmed and plenty of inefficiencies, yet the teachers are all screaming bloody murder over any notion of DOUGIE making cuts even though plenty of them are bad at their jobs and highly replaceable. So yeah, those teachers are big time commies who don’t care that the taxpayers who support their babysitting habit aren’t exactly satisfied with the job that they’re doing.

Catholic school board would be a good start

Catholic schools are not anywhere near the top of the list of problems in Ontario education

Two school systems in any province are a problem.

• two schoolboards
• building a catholic and public school in many places within a block of each other
• Not the governments job to fund your religous education . Teach your religion in the home and churches

Here in Alberta a good majority of the students in catholic schools are not catholic and a good number of teachers are not either. If you had one school system it would save a ton of money



I agree

Pretty sad that you think teaching youth is just a babysitting habit.

To their enormous credit, the teachers are not trying to just negotiate things that help them like their pay. They are negotiating things for the children that make schools more effective. You can have a reasonable disagreement about what things are actually best for the children, and balancing that with other priorities, but presenting them trying to do what they think as best as just not caring about taxpayers (which they all are) for babysitting is ridiculous.

Satisfaction actually matters. One of the things about being a teaching - low pay, long hours, lots of stress, challenging school environments - is that it has extremely high attrition in years 0-5 which makes it very hard to attract good teachers that can improve education for children. Since you are so naive as to characterize this as babysitting, you may not care about educating children, but for those that do you should care about teacher satisfaction.

Yep completely agree that Catholic school systems are trash

What's the issue with Catholic schools? It's not like they are building Catholic schools instead of regular public schools. Currently in my community there are 2 schools being built one public and one Catholic with one of each already existing. They will all be at max capacity. Catholic schools don't receive as much finding and parents are typically a lot more involved with fundraising. The Catholic school down the street from me just raised 500k to build an amazing playground.

Also just throwing government money at education and health care doesn't make it better. Quebec and Alberta don't spend the most on education and are the best in Canada and the world when it comes to math, science and reading.

For starters, government funded religious education

A couple issues
1) I don't think the government should be supporting one specific type of religion as a question of state funding
2) There is an inherent efficiency of having two large school systems
3) Two tiered systems are inequitable

This can't be true

They're not forcing people to go there. From my understanding where I live it's like 20 minutes of religious study a day, in elementary atleast.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/beta.ct...1_4713229.html

Would you support the government giving identical per student funding to any school that wanted to promote any religion?

They're forcing tax payers to pay for a catholic education system

a) There are far too many “all religion is bad” goofs around here. There is only one bad religion.

b) I came through the Catholic school system. I am now an atheist, if that matters to anyone, and many of my peers turned out like me. I’d rather send my kid to a Catholic school than a public one, even now (of course private or homeschooling are far superior to both of these options).

c) We get to pick and choose what we’re taxed for and where our tax dollars go now? Lol that would be great, because I want a bunch of teachers fired and massive adjustments made to the curriculum. Not sure why people choose to focus on Catholic schools when the issues that I’ve outlined are far more important.

Lol they only care about their bottom line. At least that’s how it is for most of them. Most of them get into teaching so they can have summers off. What’s actually best for children is to send them to private school and have them avoid being indoctrinated and held back by average IQ glorified babysitters.

People tend to choose catholic schools as they provide a better education. The reason is they dump the special needs and problem children on the public system.

How can you not see that building a catholic school k-9 that teaches 500 kids and a public one that teaches k-9 in one suburb and than provide funding for the parent that wants to send their child to a Christian or Muslim school is not costing you more money than building One Public school k-9 that holds 1500 kids including the administration job .

I too went to private Christian school and now an atheist. I also went to Catechism and church twice on Sunday. Back than the government funded nothing.


Damn were agreeing on stuff to much

Why do you think they are negotiating about things like special ed protections and class sizes instead of ONLY negotiating for compensation, their "bottom line". Being a teacher is, in general, shitty work. As I say, there is a very high attrition rate in the first five years. Any teacher I know works very hard because they genuinely care about their students. Your dismissive "average IQ glorified babysitters" line is just stupid.

If you really think there is so little value to education, that it doesn't matter what happens to kids they are just being babysat, then you are more or less eliminating yourself as having a right to be listened to in this convo.

Catholicism? It's pretty terrible, yes, but only one is nonsense.

Ok. Why? Just because not all catholic people become catholics doesn't mean it is right that the government be funding religious indoctrination.

I agree with 99% of what uke says but this is an area I definitely do not.

I know tons of teachers (and nurses) - and a huge majority of them only get into it because: a. it's easy; b. it's a guaranteed job and pension, and c. they get to stay in their podunk small town and have their house and 2.4 kids and husband they like but don't love. The "won't somebody please think of the children" group is few and far between.

I'm thoroughly convinced that if they significantly increased the wage of teachers that these individuals would be on social assistance because the actual "smart" people would take their jobs in a heartbeat.

Sure. But a few points. Firstly, the vast majority of jobs, people are doing it for fundamentally selfish reasons. Your an insurance broker or whatever the **** because of similar wife/kids/house/city/life/ etc reasons. It's only because it is a big public sector union that this is even discussed and people decide to **** on the motivations of teachers in ways they don't **** on the motivations of any other number of "easy" jobs.

Secondly, it's not that glamorous. Or particularly easy. You still need a bachelors plus some type of program typically. You are often stuck in a absolutely shitty sub situation for years after university. The pay never gets good. Very hard to move up. Lots of people drop out in the first five years. Unpaid overtime. Etc etc. My guess is that the people who THINK it will be an easy job with a great pension are the people who end up attritioning ou.

Thirdly, of the different types of jobs people do, sure each gets a distribution of altruistic and selfish means. But because teachers spend all day every day with kids, I tend to think they actually develop empathy and want whats best for them. Like when they bargain for special needs money, I don't think that this is primarily a purely selfish "i want my class to be easier" type of thing, I think they genuinely are exposed to special needs students in ways the average person is not and see why that is needed, hence why they bargain for that not just compensation increases.

YOur last paragraph is perfect.

Not going to argue this. Get rid of teachers unions and let the free market decide. My sister who has 3 kids and her master's in geothermal engineering would love to teach but isn't ready to do more schooling at 40, my wife who has a psychology degree and 3 years experience teach on South Korea is in the same boat. So many intelligent moms who realize in their mid 30's after kids the the rat race isn't worth it would be all over teaching jobs if it didn't require 2-4 more years of university.

I mean it ranks so low on the "things to fix" spectrum right now that it doesn't really matter - but the education system in Canada/US is terribly inefficient - to the point that it's pretty much an EI stabilizer.

Plus historically teachers have been all about the 2/2/2 at the cost of 'the children'.

Another huge issue is the pensions. Eliminate the pensions for all new teachers, nurses and public sector workers. You can implement some type of matching system after 5 or 10 years service.
Pension Liabilities are huge.

My bet is the border closes Monday. Alberta closed all schools and warned parents expect your kids not to return till September