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Originally Posted by Our House
I don't believe it's "the left" who rejected democracy.
Agreed that the left hasn't rejected democracy.
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The position has been forced on everyone, and now it's about saving democracy instead. What's the play if that can no longer be achieved solely by the will of the voters? What happens next? Pelosi made what was probably the most alarming comment I've seen her make in 2019 when she said something like "We just have to beat Trump in numbers too big for him to claim manipulation", or whatever. I tried finding the exact quote, but the point is that's hair-on-neck level scary talk from her.
Trump himself I'd guess would cheat if he could get away with it in the general election. I also assume that regardless of what happens, win, lose, big or small, he will complain about how he was robbed and disrespected. However, I am doubtful that he can successfully cheat in a large way. Rather, his abuse of power will be more over things he can control, like the Burisma/Biden stuff.
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Russia has shown that we have the ability to make elections appear free & fair for a long time after they aren't. Trump and the GOP understand this concept well, have stepped up their game, and have left us in situation where we have to either trust in the same institutional guard rails that keep failing us, or say the unspeakable, undemocratic things we're not allowed to say in the first place. Questioning the legitimacy of our election process is exactly the goal of democracy's enemies, and so the media, DNC, IC, etc will never do it.
If Trump wins 2020, the above is a guarantee rather than just a strong possibility.
I don't really agree with your central claim here. Russia's elections don't appear free or fair. You can't keep jailing your main opponent and get to appear as such.
As for questioning the legitimacy of our election process - isn't that what most of the Bernie supporters in this thread doing about the primary election? Doesn't seem that unspeakable to me.
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As far as violence goes, I don't see a way to avoid at least some kind of battling no matter who wins this year. If Trump pulls crazy moves to avoid a regular election, it will surely make things worse sooner.
Just so it's clear, I don't think the Bernie Sanders movement will become violent anytime soon (barring CV19 and its effects becoming much worse). My remark to victor was a response to him directly and his comment, not a general indictment of the American left. Yes, I think it would be a huge mistake and tragedy if the left gave up on democracy, and would probably lead to many of them to becoming communists, with all the problems historically associated with that ideology. But I'm quite confident that Bernie is a committed to democracy, which is why I was prepared to support him against Trump in November.