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04-21-2023 , 02:24 PM
People should lay off a bit of on the concept of free market will solve it all …
Free market been dead for like 15-20 years now .
Social corporatism is well and alive in the US for a long time now .
For a strange reason it’s just not acceptable for people shrug
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04-21-2023 , 02:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montrealcorp
People should lay off a bit of on the concept of free market will solve it all …
Free market been dead for like 15-20 years now .
Social corporatism is well and alive in the US for a long time now .
For a strange reason it’s just not acceptable for people shrug
People should lay off a bit of on the concept of free market will solve it all- Why?

Free market been dead for like 15-20 years now .- Unfortunately true

Social corporatism is well and alive in the US for a long time now - Unfortunately true

For a strange reason it’s just not acceptable for people- Because it's not working
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04-21-2023 , 02:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wreckem713
People should lay off a bit of on the concept of free market will solve it all- Why?

Free market been dead for like 15-20 years now .- Unfortunately true

Social corporatism is well and alive in the US for a long time now - Unfortunately true

For a strange reason it’s just not acceptable for people- Because it's not working IN THE US
Fyp

For the first point ,Because when free market is dead , it solves problem towards the best lobbyists

Last edited by Montrealcorp; 04-21-2023 at 02:44 PM.
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04-21-2023 , 03:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montrealcorp
People should lay off a bit of on the concept of free market will solve it all
I didn't see where anyone said that the free market will solve everything. I think most people who are pro-free market because they believe that is is the most beneficial and fair system ever created.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montrealcorp
Free market been dead for like 15-20 years now .
Agreed. It is super unfortunate, but politicians have to take actions to convince people they are helping even when they aren't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubble_Balls
I'm talking about public university and college. Many countries offer free or nearly free higher education at public options and don't have skyrocketing costs.
I'm not saying it can't be done. I am just saying that if we did it in the US the speed at which the price of higher education grows would likely double.
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04-21-2023 , 03:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montrealcorp

Fyp

For the first point ,Because when free market is dead , it solves problem towards the best lobbyists
I am curious why you decided to edit this post
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04-21-2023 , 04:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wreckem713
I am curious why you decided to edit this post
Because it works well in many others countries for reaching better equal opportunities while at the same time adding great secondary benefits .

So the problem isn’t it doesn’t works , the problem is it doesn’t work in the US due to other problems.
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04-21-2023 , 04:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montrealcorp
Because it works well in many others countries for reaching better equal opportunities while at the same time adding great secondary benefits .

So the problem isn’t it doesn’t works , the problem is it doesn’t work in the US due to other problems.
And what are the other problems?
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04-21-2023 , 04:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubble_Balls
Also, if we're going to continue the logic where the education market will be forced to lower tuition to attract students, which would reduce salaries, wouldn't that also reduce some costs of living since spending power would be lower at the high end? That sounds like a good thing.
I'm not sure what you're saying here. Are you saying that those with lucrative degrees who are making less would reduce the cost of living for others because they don't have the spending power as before? I would imagine that the opposite would happen, but it would be fairly insignificant either way.

Cost of living would go up across the board but especially for students and those in areas where students are benefiting from a lower tuition and an increase in disposable income that are now able to put more money towards their living arrangements. We saw this after covid on a larger scale. It would still be +EV for the students to reduce tuition but you're still stuck playing a game of Whack a mole no matter what you do.
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04-21-2023 , 04:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wreckem713
And what are the other problems?
Too many powerful Lobbies .
The US is run more like an oligarchy instead of a democracy.
Too much short term self interest politician working (lying) for themselves at the expense of their constituents ( I know it’s everywhere but in the US it seem at extreme level) .
Mixing socialism with communism prevent any serious talk or changes .
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04-21-2023 , 05:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by formula72
I'm not sure what you're saying here. Are you saying that those with lucrative degrees who are making less would reduce the cost of living for others because they don't have the spending power as before? I would imagine that the opposite would happen, but it would be fairly insignificant either way.

Cost of living would go up across the board but especially for students and those in areas where students are benefiting from a lower tuition and an increase in disposable income that are now able to put more money towards their living arrangements. We saw this after covid on a larger scale. It would still be +EV for the students to reduce tuition but you're still stuck playing a game of Whack a mole no matter what you do.

I’m not sure about that .
Gdp keep going down because of the ever increase of debt right ?
If u have lower tuition cost , maybe it would help them being more productive ?

For now inflation created by increase of debt just to cover everyday expenses is terrible and it’s been going for decades .
Maybe it’s time to try something else ?
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04-21-2023 , 05:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by formula72
I'm not sure what you're saying here. Are you saying that those with lucrative degrees who are making less would reduce the cost of living for others because they don't have the spending power as before? I would imagine that the opposite would happen, but it would be fairly insignificant either way.

Yes, you understood me correctly. And yes, I agree it wouldn't likely be significant. I was just pointing out that the relatively minor concern about depressed wages for some high earners might have a side benefit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by formula72
Cost of living would go up across the board but especially for students and those in areas where students are benefiting from a lower tuition and an increase in disposable income that are now able to put more money towards their living arrangements. We saw this after covid on a larger scale. It would still be +EV for the students to reduce tuition but you're still stuck playing a game of Whack a mole no matter what you do.
Since students are essentially living off free money now, I don't see why this would create upward pressure on prices.
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04-21-2023 , 05:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bahbahmickey
I'm not saying it can't be done. I am just saying that if we did it in the US the speed at which the price of higher education grows would likely double.
Why?
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04-21-2023 , 05:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montrealcorp
I’m not sure about that .
Gdp keep going down because of the ever increase of debt right ?
If u have lower tuition cost , maybe it would help them being more productive ?

For now inflation created by increase of debt just to cover everyday expenses is terrible and it’s been going for decades .
Maybe it’s time to try something else ?
Yes, like spending more.

Maybe I'm just having a bad reading day today and tomorrow your post will make a bit more sense. Inflation is high because there was too much money chasing too few goods due to a handsome govt stim and several unfortunate supply chain issues that were in part caused by the money supply.

I am in favor of lowering tuition and whatever you do will have minimal effects and be advantageous to the students but doing so doesn't mean that you're impervious from any negative corollaries that come as a result.
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04-21-2023 , 06:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubble_Balls

Since students are essentially living off free money now, I don't see why this would create upward pressure on prices.
Again, I don't think it makes much of a difference but I would disagree that it would reduce the cost of living. An increase in enrollment and housing on its own will affect prices to some degree. But I don't want to argue on the side for keeping tuition high. It needs to come down.
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04-21-2023 , 06:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubble_Balls
It would not be sorted in a way that guaranteed equal access.
Do you think there is equal access now? There never has been.
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04-21-2023 , 06:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubble_Balls
Explain why it should be that way. It's got nothing to do with socialism. The public finances many things that are a social good without the country being socialist. A purely market based system would deny access based on household income. It would widen the income disparity in this country further and limiting the access to education is going to drag down innovation and GDP.

We think it's a net benefit for the public to have access to education up till 12th grade. That limit made sense decades ago when you could make a decent living with that level of education. That's not the case anymore and we should extend the public option to the level necessary for a decent middle class income. We should also give a similar option for vocational school but the options shouldn't be decided by income.
There are plenty of trades that pay well and do not require a college degree. And many more jobs that want to hire people with degrees but they are unneeded for the job. Too many people are getting college educations right now, and all of those who can't afford to pay back their loans are part of that group.
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04-21-2023 , 09:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by formula72
Yes, like spending more.

Maybe I'm just having a bad reading day today and tomorrow your post will make a bit more sense. Inflation is high because there was too much money chasing too few goods due to a handsome govt stim and several unfortunate supply chain issues that were in part caused by the money supply.

I am in favor of lowering tuition and whatever you do will have minimal effects and be advantageous to the students but doing so doesn't mean that you're impervious from any negative corollaries that come as a result.
Having less debt do not necessarily translate to consuming more through spending .
They might spend more through investing , starting a business, being able to take more risk to be more productive or valuable ,etc .

When you are drowning in debt u just aim at surviving .
That ain’t productive for society at all .
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04-21-2023 , 09:52 PM
Yeah, MC that's all good and true. My point is that when you got folks drowning In debt or unable to buy what they need at a fair price you need to look at a whole host of things that affect those that you may not have considered previously until that particular situation becomes a problem. Shits complicated.
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04-21-2023 , 10:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slighted
it's always "the market will sort it out" until it doesn't and then everyone is quick to take bailouts and subsidies.
not everyone. look how hard it is for student loans to get "bail outs". look how easy it is for PPP to get bailed out. or for banks 2012.

but a fundamental misunderstanding is that this is indeed the "market sorting it out." this is the point of how society is structured.

liberal rank and file so believe in the system that they think this is irrational. conservative rank and file so believe in the system that they think this is proper.

theyre the same picture.
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04-21-2023 , 11:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor
not everyone. look how hard it is for student loans to get "bail outs". look how easy it is for PPP to get bailed out. or for banks 2012.

but a fundamental misunderstanding is that this is indeed the "market sorting it out." this is the point of how society is structured.

liberal rank and file so believe in the system that they think this is irrational. conservative rank and file so believe in the system that they think this is proper.

theyre the same picture.

Student loans should never get a bail out instead deal with the cost of tuition. Saw some of the stats how bloated these institutions are on staff disgusting
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04-21-2023 , 11:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lozen
Student loans should never get a bail out instead deal with the cost of tuition. Saw some of the stats how bloated these institutions are on staff disgusting
this doesnt make sense. outstanding student loan debt has no bearing on staff cost.

and further, staff cost is lol. its the admins that make a lot. low level instructors and grad students make garbage. hell they went on strike in cali.
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04-21-2023 , 11:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor
this doesnt make sense. outstanding student loan debt has no bearing on staff cost.

and further, staff cost is lol. its the admins that make a lot. low level instructors and grad students make garbage. hell they went on strike in cali.
staff cost is laughing out loud?
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04-21-2023 , 11:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wreckem713
staff cost is laughing out loud?
It depends on who you define as staff. Victor is correct that adjuncts, grad students, etc. make virtually nothing. And I don't think the cost is driven by excess janitorial staff either.

Unnecessary layers of admin are a better place to try and cut costs.
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04-21-2023 , 11:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rococo
It depends on who you define as staff. Victor is correct that adjuncts, grad students, etc. make virtually nothing. And I don't think the cost is driven by excess janitorial staff either.

Unnecessary layers of admin are a better place to try and cut costs.
You didn't make the post in question. The last poster, for no reason at all, decided staff was grad students and adjuncts. "Staff" would include everyone on the payroll from an accounting perspective, no? I realize you're a lawyer so this might not be a question for you
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04-22-2023 , 02:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob
Do you think there is equal access now? There never has been.
No, of course not, but I don't want to move towards less access.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob
There are plenty of trades that pay well and do not require a college degree. And many more jobs that want to hire people with degrees but they are unneeded for the job. Too many people are getting college educations right now, and all of those who can't afford to pay back their loans are part of that group.
Yes, you're right that there's a lot of degree "bloat" and that the trades can be a good option for many people. There are jobs that are not trades but could do with just a shorter apprenticeship instead of a four year degree. I just don't want to see household income and your luck in picking your parents be even more of a factor in education than it already is.
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