The containment thread (aka Hello darkness, my old friend) - Page 5 - Politics and Society -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

What do you have in mind by pragmatic? Legalize drugs? Bury everyone under the prisons? Or something else? Biden's apparently a non-starter since he's going to put all the black people in jail

so I guess it must be something else?

What's that braintrust running all the Southern States been up to?

Get rid of public service unions, and stop placating unions, for one. That won't happen. I'm like WN, I've become more pessimistic...for me, it's about which direction the country is going. You have way too many people buying into absurdity. If you care about poor people, unions are not your friend.

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07-20-2020 , 08:47 PM

#102

wet work

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Quote:

Originally Posted by itshotinvegas

Things weren't exactly rosy for the working man prior to the beginnings of the labor movement/s. Unions have some flaws but on balance they're a pretty good idea I think. The boomers got a pretty good whack at the pie and then either played themselves or played everybody else depending on how you want to look at it. The distribution of wealth looked somewhat decent ~50 even ~40yrs ago--at that point we could've worked harder to include those still left out and delivered on having a more egalitarian society--or say f it and flip over the table and open up a direct channel sending all the loot straight to the very top. Option 2 is basically what happened

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07-20-2020 , 09:02 PM

#103

goofyballer

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Quote:

Originally Posted by itshotinvegas

Disparate outcomes by race, particularly negatives ones, are attributed to "systemic racism", nothing else.

We're well aware that there are no disparate outcomes you won't attribute to "culture".

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Originally Posted by itshotinvegas

That's the extent of the argument the author made.

lol, itslyinginvegas lying again, what a surprise

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07-20-2020 , 09:06 PM

#104

EADGBE

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Itshot,

Labor unions are one of the few ways for the uneducated unwashed masses to earn a good living (incidentally, also one of the reasons why historically union entry was guarded jealously from black people). Arguably, they have also driven up wages for everyone, so you're going to need to unpack that 'unions are anti-poor' take a bit.

wet work,

To be fair he did specify public sector. Public sector pensions and lack of accountability (look at how hard it is to get a bad cop fired) has been a pretty huge burden on taxpaying citizens. Obviously, there's still a ways to go from there to get to 'unions are not friends to poor people.'

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07-20-2020 , 09:10 PM

#105

goofyballer

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And how could I forget:

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Originally Posted by itshotinvegas

She even cited a "resume study" as evidence, never mind only about 30% of all black people are affected in that particular study (and I'm being extremely charitable, it's likely way less), and could be even less than that, given the new insight we have about the efficacy of such studies.

This is, of course, a horseshit argument. It is not even remotely correct to conclude, from a resume study that shows people with identifiably black names suffer from hiring discrimination, that black people without identifiably black names do not suffer from hiring discrimination at other points in the process, as you seem to believe here.

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07-20-2020 , 09:40 PM

#106

itshotinvegas

banned

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Quote:

Originally Posted by goofyballer

And how could I forget:

This is, of course, a horseshit argument. It is not even remotely correct to conclude, from a resume study that shows people with identifiably black names suffer from hiring discrimination, that black people without identifiably black names do not suffer from hiring discrimination at other points in the process, as you seem to believe here.

This is just so tired. They only rebuttal you have is that bias exist, which no one ever denies. EDIT: when someone boils the entire issue down to "systemic racism", that is the epitome of a oversimplified, ignorant argument.

Last edited by itshotinvegas; 07-20-2020 at 09:47 PM.

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07-20-2020 , 09:41 PM

#107

itshotinvegas

banned

Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 7,899

Quote:

Originally Posted by EADGBE

Labor unions normally operate in sectors that have high profits, and unions seek to protect those profits (i.e. fair trade/"made in america"). Economically they are net negative. I'll grant they give higher wages, but that screws poor people, across the globe, DUCY?

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07-20-2020 , 09:47 PM

#108

goofyballer

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Quote:

Originally Posted by itshotinvegas

This is just so tired. They only rebuttal you have is that bias exist, which no one ever denies.

...which you blame on "culture", as if "culture" is the reason Jamal gets less callbacks on job applications than Chad.

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07-20-2020 , 10:03 PM

#109

itshotinvegas

banned

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Quote:

Originally Posted by goofyballer

...which you blame on "culture", as if "culture" is the reason Jamal gets less callbacks on job applications than Chad.

I mean, you are conflating culture of violent gangs to this argument, which is not relevant in this particular discussion. The issue is, you think bias against non-conforming names is ONLY due to race, which I've provided strong research that indicates this is not the case. It's very likely the instances of name bias would decrease if society went to a standard where contact information is at the bottom of the resumes, instead of the top, so that whatever biases that exist with names are reduced. You all keep trying these wage gap type arguments with race, instead of gender bias...it's just a stupid oversimplification.

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07-20-2020 , 10:06 PM

#110

goofyballer

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Quote:

Originally Posted by itshotinvegas

The issue is, you think bias against non-conforming names is ONLY due to race, which I've provided strong research that indicates this is not the case.

If you're talking about this post, no, you have not.

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07-20-2020 , 10:09 PM

#111

itshotinvegas

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Well, we will see how good education, policing et al gets in the next four years when you control the cities, and the federal government, and let's see if the focus on racial bias accomplishes anything significant.

Especially when being on time is considered prejudicial to black people:

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07-20-2020 , 10:16 PM

#112

goofyballer

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Quote:

Originally Posted by itshotinvegas

Well, we will see how good education, policing et al gets in the next four years when you control the cities, and the federal government

Been there, done that, and you didn't have a response

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWookie

Yes, it matters. We live in a two party system, and if one party is better than the other, then even if imperfect, it's a preferable choice, while we continue to work to drag them further left.

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Originally Posted by MrWookie

OK, if your argument is truly making no value judgment about left vs. right, then you might as well just conclude, as we have done, that the Democratic party is not far enough left. Welcome to the team, comrade.

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07-20-2020 , 10:18 PM

#113

itshotinvegas

banned

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Quote:

Originally Posted by goofyballer

Been there, done that, and you didn't have a response

I don't care about the RNC. They are 100% irrelevant where I live. I made post to that extent several times. I know you don't consider that a response, but it is, and demonstrates the extent to which you lie.

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07-20-2020 , 10:19 PM

#114

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

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Quote:

Originally Posted by itshotinvegas

Disparate outcomes by race, particularly negatives ones, are attributed to "systemic racism", nothing else. She even cited a "resume study" as evidence, never mind only about 30% of all black people are affected in that particular study (and I'm being extremely charitable, it's likely way less), and could be even less than that, given the new insight we have about the efficacy of such studies.

That's the extent of the argument the author made. Critical race theory in a nutshell.

Why should the 30 percent, in your estimation, of Black people with detectably Black names, face resume discrimination? And what new evidence do you have about the efficacy (sic) of those studies (not that studies have efficacy)?

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07-20-2020 , 10:23 PM

#115

itshotinvegas

banned

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWookie

Why should the 30 percent, in your estimation, of Black people with detectably Black names, face resume discrimination?

This is just another ****ed up loaded question intended to shift the goal post, and imply something. Who says they should? The only rebuttal you and Goofy have is to pivot the conversation and pretend I'm arguing racial bias does not exist. However, you all always refuse to acknowledge any other reason. I'm saying multiple reasons, including race, and you say one reason. That's the pattern for every ****ing conversation with you.

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07-20-2020 , 10:25 PM

#116

MrWookie

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Quote:

Originally Posted by itshotinvegas

This is just another ****ed up loaded question intended to shift the goal post, and imply something. Who says they should?

You are the one who passed off that number as nothing to be concerned about.

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07-20-2020 , 10:29 PM

#117

itshotinvegas

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWookie

You are the one who passed off that number as nothing to be concerned about.

No, I did not. My argument was there are other reasons, outside of race, indicating those resume studies are not that indicative of the extent racial bias plays a role, and racial discrimination is likely less than what they've previously conveyed. In other words, other factors are leading to the disparate outcomes as well.

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07-20-2020 , 10:32 PM

#118

MrWookie

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Quote:

Originally Posted by itshotinvegas

What factors, other than race, lead to James getting better responses than Jamaal, on otherwise identical resumes?

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07-20-2020 , 10:40 PM

#119

itshotinvegas

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWookie

What factors, other than race, lead to James getting better responses than Jamaal, on otherwise identical resumes?

I should not have to explain this to someone as educated as you are. There are innumerable biases humans have, especially with incomplete information. I mean, using a name for any sort of evaluative purposes shows you right off the bat there is a problem, before you even get to the race question. If you don't have a typical name, some people are not going to like it for any number of subjective reasons. Think of names you would not name your kid, and think about why.

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07-20-2020 , 10:45 PM

#120

d2_e4

certifiable moron

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 12,115

Avoiding anything that initialises to "IHIV" would probably be a shrewd start.

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07-20-2020 , 10:45 PM

#121

EADGBE

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Quote:

Originally Posted by itshotinvegas

I might concede that economically they are a net negative to the economy as a whole. I'm no expert. However, the idea that it screws poor people seems entirely antithetical to something that is driving wage equality.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/06/b...nequality.html

I highly doubt Amazon, for instance, is doing wonders for poor people; though it is probably doing wonders for a lot of people's 401k's.

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07-20-2020 , 10:52 PM

#122

itshotinvegas

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Quote:

Originally Posted by EADGBE

I am speaking globally. Every job a union prevents from going offshore, is less opportunity poor people in other countries will have. In some of those countries, the pay is middle class where they live, but not in the US. That seems bad for US middle class, but at the same time, you are creating more consumers. Unions restrict the redistributive effects of capitalism. They are not needed as much, especially with the regulations that exist that protect non-union workers, i.e. NLRB, OSHA, etc. Besides, my issue is with public sector unions more than private unions.

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07-20-2020 , 10:53 PM

#123

goofyballer

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Quote:

Originally Posted by itshotinvegas

There are innumerable biases humans have
...
If you don't have a typical name, some people are not going to like it for any number of subjective reasons. Think of names you would not name your kid, and think about why.

LOL

People who don't "like" the name Jamal when looking at resumes might have some internal biases involved? No ****, now keep going! What do you suppose those biases might be, IHIV?

Why would you not name your kid "Jamal"?