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02-09-2023 , 06:14 PM

#1451

Luckbox Inc

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 61,693

It's true. I've only barely ever been banned and I lack both self-control and decency. Fortunately I have impeccable judgement.

02-09-2023 , 06:36 PM

#1452

jjjou812

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 6,135

Are you two posting some kind of challenge to the forum?

Bold moves following the recent departures!

02-09-2023 , 06:45 PM

#1453

browser2920

Niceness Influencer

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 6,526

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjjou812

Are you two posting some kind of challenge to the forum?

Bold moves following the recent departures!

Hold my ipad.

02-09-2023 , 08:01 PM

#1454

Tien

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,786

Uke managed to defeat Cuepee in the war of words.

UKE_MASTER

02-09-2023 , 08:04 PM

#1455

Tien

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,786

Quote:

Originally Posted by uke_master

As you leave, here is my truth: I've genuinely, honestly, never intentionally lied or gaslight you. Not once. I'm sure there has been misinterpretations, forgetting, hyperbole, etc. But in every interaction you and I have had, I've always told you the things I genuinely believe. I guess this is unfalsifiable, but in this parting moment perhaps my words are more believable now than otherwise: I'm not and have never gaslight you.

It's disappointing that you are choosing to leave the forum over what is ultimately a complete and utter character misread. My hope is that with some time and separation these words will have some positive impact in your life. Good luck!

(Also, ha, pretty stoked that I correctly predicted that Cuepee was quitting for good over this issue of not being able to accuse me of gaslighting when I noticed he hadn't returned the day after his temp ban. It looks like my Cuepee-ometer will go in storage for a bit, but nice to see it was perfectly calibrated to the very end.)

You were the nicest person that ever had back and forth exchanges with Cuepee.

02-09-2023 , 08:07 PM

#1456

Tien

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,786

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rococo

I am always amazed me at how many people find the rules of this forum unbearable or impossible to follow. In the embarrassing number of years I have posted in this forum, I have never been banned. I haven't even been warned by a mod in a pm to knock it off.

And it isn't because I am careful about what I post or circumspect about revealing what I think. It isn't because I avoid arguments. It's just very, very, very easy to avoid getting banned if you have even a bare minimum of self-control, judgment, and decency.

Yup.

I'm quite an ******* and never got banned once.

02-09-2023 , 09:56 PM

#1457

washoe

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2019 Posts: 8,526

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuepee

Parting Words: ( a screed if you will)

Since i see speculation being attributed to me about why i have not returned and have no intention to under the current format, particularly by uke (something I thought was to be against the new 'nice' rules, (which i disagreed with btw)). I will clear it up.

Today was the first glance at that forum since that point and the question has been begged, so i will answer.
While there are many silly complaints that i could take issue with, with the new moderation, i do fundamentally believe Forums have a right to moderate as they wish, even if that is poor and inconsistent moderation.

So when Browser jumps in to an exchange between uke and i, were i point out that uke is wrongly replying to my post and points with complete non-sequiturs, that neither address the points i made and instead offer a pretense of doing so, and i call that a bad faith debate technique that leads to forum deterioration... and Browsers reply is 'I cannot force uke to answer what i actually said' and in other ways defends him, but then immediately after i am banned Browser calls out Trolly for doing EXACTLY that, in breaking down his post, point by point, and saying how the reply was in no way a response to what was asked or said and thus bad faith, that type of inconsistency is not something I can continue under. It cannot be acceptable if it only is done to me and i will be the one cited, for calling it out, and the opposite stance taken when done to others. It is one thing to have posters taking 'sides' and another to have the mod doing so.
But that is not the big issue.

The big issue is this push for nice, that uke and Laggy and others pushed for and won, that disallows the attributing of terms like 'gaslighting', 'lies' and other identifiers of the posting techniques that have become common in discussions today.

Below in the spoiler box is a Master Class in gaslighting and lies by Rick Scott who now denies he ever called for cutting key Entitlement programs. The best way to address what Rick Scott is doing is by calling it Gaslighting and Lies. He knows if he can demand 'nice' and instead just get you to debate him on it, that makes it seem to many as if it is simply 'just a difference of opinion', WHEN IT IS NOT. That has been weaponized on TV land and brought in to Forumland.

So you all will read that and think 'Yes some of the right do that and it is fine to call them out, but that does not mean we do that, and since we do not agree, you should be prohibited from accusing us of that'. You can see Rick Scott also does not agree.

You will hand wave that away thinking 'but we are different and right...and they are wrong and gaslighting and lying so its ok'.
MY POINT, is not that i am right or wrong in my accusation, or you are right or wrong in your rebuttal, either could be true. The point is you DO NOT have functional debate, if there is a prohibition in being able to call that out, if you believe that is what is being done.

This push, in the name of nice, that if i think you are wrong in that attribution, then you should be prohibited from saying it, IS NOT debate.
I offered in reply to this the proper way to deal with it which is not difficult. If i accuse uke, for example, of gaslighting, and he disagrees, then the rule should simply be, you can level the accusation, the other person can rebut, it if they wish, and then you both get one post to make and rest your case, and then any further pushing or rehash would be considered spamming. that would end the back and forth 'no i am right...no I am' which IMO is the real problem.

I am not the only one who believes gaslighting and lies are the biggest growing cancer in chat forums and social media as there are many articles on it. It is being taken from the political sphere into casual debate and discussions. It does not matter if any of you agree with me on that point, or would ever agree with my identification of it. What matters is a forum that says 'WE have decided you cannot hold or state that view here and make that case here...". Once you have prohibited that case even being allowed to be offered or made, in the name of 'nice', you have lost real debate.

I genuinely hope however the new rules do make the forum a better place for those of who remain here in terms of what you want, just as Elon taking over Twitter is making that place more enjoyable for a certain group, in terms of what they wanted. Everyone wants to control the dialogue of others in very disingenuous ways and that is the threat. This is not about rules generally, as all forums need rules. This about tactics used to allow for the growing phenomena of gaslighting and lies to not be called out as such, and those who want to weaponize that ultimate push that it is not 'nice' to suggest or say they are doing that, as a way to make you stop. STOPPING is the problem.

And if you read that and think 'but you are wrong when you do it QP, you simply are incapable of understanding the point. Rick Scott thinks you are wrong. The persons being accused cannot set the standard and saying 'ya but he deserves it, as he is actually doing it but we don't because we do not', as a way to silence is wrong.

This overwhelming fear, as if QP saying you are gaslighting or lying' when he genuinely believes it, as the highest form oif offense ('how dare he be allowed to think or say that') as opposed to just an 'asked and answered, move on' step, or putting the person on ignore, (as i did with Washoe when i saw no value in reading his posts) is a need to 'control'. A need to force me into debating Rick Scott or any of you, without calling out what I believe. And i would NOT debate Rick Scott on that dishonesty, if i was denied being able to call him out as that only helps his misinformation. I will not do the same with any of you. I would move on, rather than being forced to engage Rick Scott or you, in the manner which precludes calling the most common, growing, dishonest tactics, what they are.

And once again, if you think 'but you are wrong when you do it' is the answer, that means you believe each individual should be the arbiter of their own disingenuousness, but no one believes that. Not when it comes to others. They only want that standard when applied to themselves and thus will say 'it is fine to call Rick Scott out (or those in the BFI)... just not me'. If you do it to me, i am going to seek a friendly mod to put down the hammer and end it. If that mod is willing to end it on your behalf, that is where real debate ends, imo.

All the best.
(I was going to edit for brevity, but alas I must go out, being me. ME, ME, ME)

Spoiler:

aha

02-09-2023 , 11:36 PM

#1458

ecriture d'adulte

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 6,457

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rococo

It's amazing if you assume Mods know what what they are doing, understand the posts they are modding, don't troll themselves etc. There's petty much no reason to think any of that is true though.

02-09-2023 , 11:41 PM

#1459

formula72

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 4,749

I've been temp banned once by Wookie about a decade ago and fully deserved it, probably warned 3 times in 15 years and all of those warnings could have deserved its own temp ban. I'm generally the last to know who's in charge around here and almost always post with blatant honesty to what I feel is right.

02-09-2023 , 11:57 PM

#1460

Tien

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,786

Quote:

Originally Posted by formula72

He gave me 10 point infraction a long time ago (2012 I think) for telling someone "You're a fool" in an income tax argument.

And this was the wild wild west twoplustwo politics era. Couldn't believe it at the time.

02-10-2023 , 12:15 AM

#1461

Rococo

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 19,395

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecriture d'adulte

It's amazing if you assume Mods know what what they are doing, understand the posts they are modding, don't troll themselves etc. There's petty much no reason to think any of that is true though.

I disagree. It has been trivially easy for me to avoid bans no matter who was moderating the forum.

02-10-2023 , 01:36 AM

#1462

ecriture d'adulte

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 6,457

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rococo

I disagree. It has been trivially easy for me to avoid bans no matter who was moderating the forum.

And as a well off white guy I could talk about how "trivially easy" it has been for me to avoid run ins with the police. But maybe that purposelessly obscures actual problems.

02-10-2023 , 01:43 AM

#1463

nutella virus

banned

Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 3,628

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecriture d'adulte

And as a well off white guy I could talk about how "trivially easy" it has been for me to avoid run ins with the police. But maybe that purposelessly obscures actual problems.

This is ridiculous for so many reasons. Really the first is that this interaction has nothing to do or resembling a police interaction. That's just way outta left field. Same with equating being white with this posting place. I'm not going on but to say you're likely better than that post by a mile

02-10-2023 , 01:54 AM

#1464

uke_master

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 16,575

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rococo

I've never gotten a warning either in a decade of being here. Perhaps I'm just really, really good at gaslighting?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tien

Uke managed to defeat Cuepee in the war of words.

UKE_MASTER

This is my second greatest forum accomplishment.

02-10-2023 , 10:08 AM

#1465

Rococo

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 19,395

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecriture d'adulte

And as a well off white guy I could talk about how "trivially easy" it has been for me to avoid run ins with the police. But maybe that purposelessly obscures actual problems.

This is a strange analogy. As an anonymous poster on an internet forum, I don't have any sort of immutable characteristic like skin color that gives me an inherent advantage in avoiding negative interactions with the forum "police."

02-10-2023 , 10:15 AM

#1466

Rococo

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 19,395

Quote:

Originally Posted by uke_master

I've never gotten a warning either in a decade of being here. Perhaps I'm just really, really good at gaslighting?

Nah. It's just really easy.

I have the same reaction whenever there is a discussion of sexual harassment in the workplace. No matter what the rules are, I have always found that it requires no effort or planning at all to avoid sexually harassing people at work.

02-10-2023 , 10:26 AM

#1467

ecriture d'adulte

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 6,457

Quote:

Originally Posted by nutella virus

You’re not really following the conversation. I said there are hidden assumptions to the notion of “ since I’ve never been infracted there must be something fundamentally different about the posts that do draw infractions”. That of course assumes a level of competence to the mods that’s frankly a little crazy.

02-10-2023 , 10:40 AM

#1468

ecriture d'adulte

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 6,457

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rococo

Bad policing, like bad modding is inconsistent. I haven’t been infracted by the new mod either, but when crazy posts about child rape are left up because the mod simply didn’t understand what they were saying, it’s silly to pretend like infracted vs non-infracted is as non-arbitrary and meaningful a distinction as you’re claiming.

Last edited by ecriture d'adulte; 02-10-2023 at 10:54 AM.

02-10-2023 , 10:56 AM

#1469

Rococo

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 19,395

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecriture d'adulte

My point was that the banhammer is wielded so lightly that it is trivially easy to avoid. It may be the case that some people who deserve bans avoid the hammer, but that is a different issue.

02-10-2023 , 11:08 AM

#1470

ecriture d'adulte

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 6,457

My previous account was completely nuked because I said 2+2 wasn’t a well run business and should have made a ton more money from where they were positioned pre poker boom. Not really against any rules and points that have been made here thousands of times with no mod actions.

02-10-2023 , 01:37 PM

#1471

campfirewest

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 10,166

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rococo

On a forum it's not skin color, its political views. This doesn't apply nowadays, but way back when disagreeing with Wookie was an easy way to get banned.

02-10-2023 , 01:42 PM

#1472

Trolly McTrollson

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 37,778

Quote:

Originally Posted by campfirewest

On a forum it's not skin color, its political views. This doesn't apply nowadays, but way back when disagreeing with Wookie was an easy way to get banned.

What was your disagreement about?

02-10-2023 , 01:51 PM

#1473

Rococo

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 19,395

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Spew

Pretty sure this Let's Pile On QP direction didn't start until your ban was served and over......

I didn't do anything to pile on QP. I said that he was not the person I would have expected to voluntarily walk away from the forum (not an attack). Then I made a general comment about how easy it is not to get banned.

02-10-2023 , 01:58 PM

#1474

Rococo

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 19,395

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuepee

Alright you guys have baited me back since the comprehension of this issue is just so poor.

In the above there is an assumption that 'avoiding being banned via simple compliance, is desired'.

What if that premise is wrong on its face? What if i told Browser from our very first PM exchange I knew i would get banned under the rules he was pushing and was perfectly fine with that?

My comprehension is fine. My point was that I say whatever I want, to whomever I want, without getting banned. I don't feel unduly constrained by forum rules. That's why avoiding bans requires virtually no effort on my part and seems very, very easy to me.

02-10-2023 , 02:15 PM

#1475

Didace

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 20,391

It is a rule of the internet that anyone giving an over-long goodbye will always come back.

For QP, his inability to resist posting after his goodbye is directly related to his not being able to follow a few simple rules to avoid being given a temp-ban.

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