Micro, that is farfetched bs even for you. shameless stuff man. She maliciously or otherwise stereotyped using antisemitic rhetoric, and I still never called her irredeemable, so stop putting words in my mouth, again. And I used a specific example of a terror group recruiting child soldiers to point out that a splinter of radicals doesn't condemn the entire religious faith, protecting the integrity of Islam as it were. Just pathetic, really

Btc,

Bull****.

She apologized and you won't accept it. That's you saying she's irredeemable.

As for the last part, I'll check the context later as well as your other posts on Islam.

This is becoming a good conversation. Thank you all.

Now, what percentage of Christians (say, by country, if we have that data) today hold the belief that sodomy should be punishable by death. And what percentage of Muslims hold that belief?

Grunching: Has someone done the "U% of Muslims believe in W. With Y Muslims that's Z Muslims that want to kill/rape/whatever you!"yet?

Alsways good to replay the classics.

Why do you think that matters?

The people she said were doing it for mad chedda are on tape in front of an audience saying that they do for mad chedda.

mad chedda is a street term for money FYI.

What really stands out about that is the lobbyists and their politicians accused *someone* of anti-semitism for describing and criticizing lobbying, not just any one- but someone. And then they also pressured her to apologize. That’s was so manipulative and distorting of anti-semitism. And telling how she was singled out for it too. One of the rotten establishment highlights of the year.

Btc,

What kind of bs is "maliciously or otherwise"?

Called it.

As I understand it, the issue seems to be we can be critical of Christian beliefs (in the western world at least) without harming Christians; but we can't be critical of Islamic doctrine without harming Muslims, so we should be cognizant of context and not be critical.

How the gap is bridged so that in practice every critique of Islam is regarded as Islamophobic (I am still waiting for the example of a single instance of a public figure criticizing any aspect of Islamic doctrine where this isn't the case and suspect I am going to be waiting a long time); and how we can move forward in a bizarre world where we can't be critical of anyone but white males (or those "carrying water" for white identity), because being critical would be tantamount to harm, I don't know.

micro, when you want to get back to good faith, I'm here. until then, stop putting words in my mouth and drawing conclusions from statements that need no interpretation. You were wrong, again. You lied, again. I'm trying to work with you man, but you're not making it any easier.

Well, whatever you called and got right, as I said before Sam Harris made his bones as a public figure by being an outspoken atheist and attacking all religion, and you only know about the Islamic criticism because that is what he got pushback for. I know you admitted you dont care and you aren't too interested in the facts when it comes to forming your opinions, but that is the truth nonetheless.

Yes, he certainly does not seem very inclined towards being generous towards the motives of those he views as his ideological enemies. Like I said before, 2 sides of the same coin.

No, you don't understand it.

And to satisfy you, here: https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/05/08...s-own-pledges/

You can point to awful passages in the Quran.

You can point to awful passages in the Bible.

Some of those awful passages in the Bible are no longer practiced in the Western world in areas where Christianity is still the major religion.

Therefore something other than the awful passages in the scripture is playing a major role.

A result of this is I think it's pretty ignorant when I hear people talking about Islam as if it's inherently more dangerous than Christianity or indeed a few other religions. If people want to call that kind of ignorance Islamophobic then I'm alright with that. But given I'm an atheist in the strong sense of the word, it would be weird to level that accusation at me that I'm not critical of Islamic doctrine. They lost me at Allah.

There is probably an interesting discussion here about religion, worldview, ideology, and lifestyle and the interplay of those concepts.
And undoubtedly you're right that some things need to be lived to be understood--but I don't think we should shut ourselves off from trying to understand other cultures either.

Wait a sec here, not only are you putting words in my mouth, again, but now you are admittedly making unsubstantiated claims and accusations. You have to go back and check? What did it say the first time when you felt inclined to call me that? Ridiculous and unacceptable.

What? I literary described how one tiny faction of radicals, using their own interpretation of the Koran, do not represent an entire faith. I'm not generous towards stupidity, much like that comment, or yours for that matter.

Is it ok if we make a good faith effort to try to understand and still decide some ideas are better than others (to steal a WN phrase)?

Well I only know of specific data for the US and for acceptance of homosexuality rather than punishable by death but it turns out the percentage of Muslims and percentage of Protestants who don't believe homosexuality is acceptable is identical at 48% - and the number is falling significantly faster among US Muslims than US Protestants.

The polling data shows that US Muslims are at least roughly as liberal regarding social issues as Christians and significantly more so than specifically evangelical Christians.

Willd, thanks for posting those sources.

You can try but it's pretty dangerous.

btc why did you bring up child soldiers at all? If you're now saying that it is purely a fringe sect and not representative of Islam at all how was it in any way relevant to the discussion?

I am not sure the practice of bombing churches meets the standard for mainstream accepted Islamic dogma.

But you were able to find a person who criticized bombing churches without being accused of Islamophobia, so I will give credit where it is due.

Thank You.

Im not now saying it, I said it the whole time.

Plenty of context followed this feel free to catch up.

And this is why guys like micro need a talking to because they toss out bs and then someone steps in it and spreads the stink.

Just drips with Islamophobia, right? Now micro doesn't have to go back and selectively quote something to try and wiggle out of his baseless claims and slandering.

OK, someone asked you for sources on this (I think), but I'll accept your stats as true for now.

I think the relevant issue is what percentage of a group of people believe sodomy should be punishable by death. You're grouping "believe it is immoral" together with "believe it should be punishable by death." That's crazy talk.

And what percentage of people believe changing your religion (including becoming agnostic or atheist) should be punishable by death?