LOL at "just asking questions" about the integrity of EXACTLY THE SAME DATA you cited in support of your position.

You deciding who is and isn't a muslim based on skin colour is racist. Just fyi cause I know you're trying to keep track. It can get confusing but this one's pretty clear.

When did I do this? I certainly may have done this, but I don't recall doing it. Can you show me the post?

LMAO, in his desperation to demonize Muslims Kel has workshopped a pretty strong argument that American society is incompatible with classical liberal values. Can’t let them come to Dearborn or they will become radicalized.

I find this a completely bizarre interpretation of what I posted, to the point I don't even really know how to respond, but ok.

I mean, a 10 second google search just came up with this tidbit, which is in line with other stuff I remember reading. If your objection is my use of the term "black" as a descriptor that is fine. Strike it from the record. Although a lot of black Muslims might object to your denying their racial identity as an important part of their identity.

https://www.cato.org/blog/muslim-ass...nions-violence

"Many converts are prisoners who do not stay with Islam for the long run. Estimates of the number of incarcerated Muslims are within a narrow range. Between 9.4 percent and 15 percent of all prisoners nationwide are Muslims, which translate to 227,000 to 360,000 incarcerated Muslims. According to another estimate, there have been about 300,000 conversions to Islam in prison during the last decade. Professor Lawrence Mamiya of Vassar College estimates that 10 percent of all prison inmates have converted to Islam – about 242,000. Michael Waller quotes a higher figure but he does not provide a citation or a method of estimation. Thus, it’s likely that nearly all or a substantial majority of incarcerated Muslims actually converted while incarcerated.

Based on these figures, 30 to 40 percent of the 760,000 nationwide converts to Islam could be incarcerated. These converts are not serious long-term adherents to their new faith. Professor Mamiya estimates that only 20 percent of prison converts continue on as Muslims after they are released. If the 20 percent retention rate for prison converts is the same as non-prison converts, a possibility considering that religious converts often change religions multiple times and they are less likely to pray than those born Muslim, then the long-term conversion figure should be even lower."

To be fair to Kelhus they are both from Pew but aren't from the same report.

This is still you saying black muslims shouldn't count btw.

his argument is about the most rediculous thing ever posted. pretty much should be open season on him for dunking.

Well, this possible phenomenon certainly isn't particular to Muslims. Most studies indicate that in our ideologically fractured times, red states/counties/cities are shifting more right at a very distrubing rate. I mean, recent local repeals of abortion rights are a pretty good indication of this phenomenon.

Ok. Fair enough. I don't think I am saying that, but let me walk it back a little and say the US Muslim population is very diverse with very divergent life histories, and probably shouldn't even be treated as a single coherent identity in the first place. For example, the following data from Pew shows a pretty big disparity between foreign and US born Muslim perceptions of bigotry against them, and I imagine racial identity plays a part in this:

Tom,

Thoughts on Salman Rushdie. Islamophobe? If you don't have an opinion, that is fine too.

Kel, there are 2 points I'd make about this

The first is that we have to take a lot more care when discussing vulnerable groups. If we compare making claims about Christianity vs making claims about Islam then we need to take into account that, in the west at this time no Christians will be told to go home because they are christian while Muslims are a target of that and worse. I call being very careful to avoid this harm 'political correctness' (so do many) although that's a controversial term in these parts.

The 2nd point is about this sort of data. It's no problem for me to take it as minimally informative as I would do so for all such data - some others may have the problem of embracing such data when it suits them and rejecting it when it doesn't (hint this might be a more fruitful target for your point).

Combining these two I'd point out it's harmful and incorrect to make offensive claims about Muslims in general from this sort of data.

The BBC are kind of big here. This story has been kind of big here. As in, I get home from work and the 6 o'clock news is on and this is a recurring story as they discuss with people and update on the ongoings.

I know you're not living in the UK but I can assure you this is a conversation that is being had.

theres nearly 3.5 million muslims in America, source: google. so ya, those BIG NUMBERS that you tried to use dont matter at all.

That is too broad a categorization, so your line of reasoning would only be valid if I had referred to this same kind of line, but i didn't. It's now being conflated with a much wider group.

And to the bolded, both yes for the sake of this argument since I referred to ISIS specifically.

It's branch or stream of Islam is not representative of the majority, as the majority are not pushed towards violence. However, this "radicalized" or reformed branch of Islam very much does encourage violence.

I'm not denying or engaging in talk about comparing the other groups that have used the similar tactics, or which group uses them more, or even more effectively.

Never read the satanic verses I'm afraid. But wasn't rushdie more of a blasphemy thing? I'm not certain but I thought he got fatwa'd for taking allahs name is vain rather than criticising islam particularly.

Silly? It's a deliberately bad faith spew of gibberish to try and own the libs. In no reasonable terms can one interpret incredulity at the notion that opposing child marriage is ever called Islamophobic as a proclamation in favor of child marriage.

It's only an ideology insofar as people live it. To think that you, a non-practitioner, understand it better than actual adherents who are living it in a manner that doesn't fit with your assertions about how they should be living it is incredible hubris.

Saving this ^ for later when you support someone doing the exact same thing

Do you think it is possible to have a reasoned critique of mainstream Islamic religious doctrine without being an Islamophobe? If yes, can you think of a single person who would fit this criteria to you?

It’s politics, who wants to vote about the Muslims’ religion?

It’s society, who wants to gossip and opine about the Muslims’ religion?

I don't know what that means to you specifically, but probably

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_in_Islam
Turns out they are really just Catholics.

Btc,

Ilhan Omar mentions money in Israel together and she's an irredeemable anti-semite. It's not something that she can own up to and apologize for. But you can go on about Isis and child soldiers and you're not an islamophobe?

Kelhus.

I don't think you'll ever find a better example of tribalism than that.

It was poor example but this is a valid point to be grasped.

The political method of making stuff up about people via 'tells', 'reasonable inference' and 'bad faith' is not a good one.