UBI is so much better than raising the min wage.

It would allow people working a second job (at min wage) to make ends meet to quit that job and allow for the job to go to its intended recipient (young kid with family support or retiree to supplement social security).

So you're saying that you believe companies' price increases to protect their margins would totally offset all gains from minimum wage increases? I don't see why that would be, since minimum wage workers are just one part of the overall economy. I believe the last article I linked did touch on that.

Nice link. Troublesome if true.

"Essentially, a $15 minimum wage would take $30.5 billion from the middle-class and high-income families and distribute $21.9 billion to low-income families"

Not against the idea of doing that, but the inefficiency of it would def suck.

Totally agree. Too bad we're probably still at least a decade away from most people realizing we're gunna need it with all the automation approaching on the horizon.

It's better than a minimum wage hike, but I have a feeling you will have to curtail immigration significantly.

If I'm skilled worker making $15 an hour, and minimum wage increases to the amount I make, I have two choices. Get an easier job (which is precisely not what you want me to do), or demand higher wages from my employer. This takes us to the demand for higher income issue, or lack thereof. Most people will take the easier job. That's what forces the bottom out of the job market becasue they can't compete against the higher skilled worker willing to work for minimum wage, and that will increase the demand for high skilled workers, increasing their wages.





It puts blacks and minorities in much worse situation, if true.

Am I missing something here? 15 * 40 * 52 = 31200. How skilled are you in this scenario, exactly?

More skilled than someone making $8 an hour.

All things being equal, most would prefer fry-guy at McDonald's or something.

ding! fries are done!

It will become a super hot button political issue at the very least.

I think the bigger issue with it is that it could be a disaster for the poor as a half measure. If its a lower number, say $1500, and you cut all the entitlements, poor people might actually make out worse in the deal. But not cutting the entitlements kind of defeats one of the main attractions of it, i.e. efficiency and lack of administrative bloat.

But who really knows at this point.

I don't think that lower skilled = easier, necessarily. Minimum wage jobs all tend to be pretty physical or boring experiences, ime. Like working in McDonalds is low skill, but I don't know that I would call it 'easy.' I also don't think 'high skilled' workers are only making $15/hr?

Have you worked in a factory? Pretty freaking boring with little to no social interaction. Managers at retailers make that....why manage when you can just worry about yourself, with less work, less hours.

Sounds like the CBO is having their 'findings' written by lobbyists.

oh it would shrink profits? who knew?.. none of this crap is interesting

Open random thread ------> read high-yield convo ------> profit intellectually

Would it be good to decrease the minimum wage to $4 so that burger flippers currently working the easiest possible job they can, who could do higher-skilled work for $8/hour but choose not to, are forced to move to those higher-skilled jobs to keep their pay level?

Would that mean those higher-skilled jobs, which previously had their wages artificially inflated because of lower demand (everyone saying "I can flip burgers for the same pay" thus leaving those jobs vacated), can start paying less when the demand increases, and so on and so forth up the chain?

It looks sweltering back there, but you don't have to talk to people so that's probably preferable.

And no Karens.

Retail manager seems like a half step up above the fry guy tho. You just get to wear the white shirt. By higher skill I thought you meant like a CDL truck driver or something.

I'm not the one trying to shape society, or the economy. I don't oppose/support the minimum wage on ideological grounds. In my opinion, the economic literature tells me it's not good. I know there is some out there that tries to paint it as good, but you will see those are driven by ideology, not economics. They try to make the economics fit the ideology.

Why so wishy-washy when we talk about going the other direction?

If you oppose raising minimum wage for all the arguments made above, it seems pretty clear you should support lowering it for the same reasons. The odds that the minimum wage just happens to be at the exact correct spot are pretty damn low.

I don't think many people will work for $4 an hour when they can collect welfare, food stamps and make more, and they can probably make more panhandling. Only 12% of workers make minimum wage, and only a third of them live in poverty. Price controls don't work as intended.

lol sweltering.. but with its perks. I might legit feign ******ation to avoid chatting with coworkers at a McDonald's

"Schlitz here is our new fry-guy. He's deaf and mute, but a great communicator in other ways."

That's when I'd blow my own cover, and say,"stfu, lady, I'm an unreachable island of a man with fry skills."

Huh? Those things don't replace each other. The choice is collecting welfare and food stamps, or collecting welfare and food stamps plus another $4/hour for working. Why wouldn't they work to make more money?

The same reason I'm not making $120K/year working for a defense contractor. I don't have to (that's part of the reason that job pays so much).

wat

It's econ 101. If two thirds of the workforce we are talking about are doing it for discretionary/supplemental income, and the wage for that job does little to accomplish that goal, they won't work. This creates a labor shortage and increases wages to the point to where it becomes worthwhile. The defense contractor position pays so highly becasue there are not many people who can do that job, and a lot of people don't want to do that job.

the job pays well, owing to ambitious candidates seeking more fulfillment from life than daytime TV can provide

Okay, that makes sense. So, no issues with decreasing the minimum wage then? If no one works for $4, then Der Markt will increase wages.

Go look what fast food workers make in Wyoming. I'm not sure if it's still like that, but when I worked up there, they had incredible labor shortages to the point they had to shut the fast food joints down from time to time, and they made well above minimum wage.