You two must be fun at parties.

Good recap of everything related to the case from CLR.

not to defend Chauvin in any way, but prisons should be held responsible for people under their care getting stabbed. if you're taking someone's freedom you should be responsible for their safety.

I'm by no means a fan of how prisons in the US (both state and federal) are run, but it's worth recognising that preventing attacks is a bit of a logistical nightmare when, between gang wars, snitches, sex offenders, etc. etc., probably half the inmates in the system easily have at least a dozen volunteers each just waiting to attack them if given the chance.

The situation would be a lot more manageable if the USA didn't have more people in prison per capita than any other country because of draconian laws and, as Kropotkin said, prisons are Universities of crime.

Agree 100%. To add to above - build more schools and you won't need as many prisons.

How would this help individual prisons be more manageable? I would think this would mean the average person in prison would be more prone to violence than they are now.

Shouldn't he have been in protective custody? Or was he and it's just not very well run?

PC - protective custody (also known as SNY - special needs yard, PH - protective housing, or colloquially "dropout yard", depending on which state / federal and type of facility) is just a unit/prison where the population comprises inmates who have a target on their back for whatever reason. Unless you put all those inmates (which is like 25% of the prison population) in solitary confinement for the duration of their sentences, there is literally no way to protect them from each other.

A common misconception is that the guards' job in prison is to protect the inmates. That might be a minor part of their duties, but their primary job is to ensure the inmates don't escape and "facilitate the orderly running of the institution" (which is obviously intentionally left vague). They sure as **** aren't jumping in when someone is getting stabbed until backup arrives, and even then, if it takes time before they feel it's safe to approach the scene, they will take their time even if an inmate is lying there literally bleeding out on the floor. That goes as much for PC as it does for any other unit.

Incidentally, from what I understand, Chauvin was in solitary confinement while in state custody for pretty much obvious reasons, but when he got sentenced federally he requested a transfer to a federal facility because it would have resulted in his doing a bit less time due to the intricacies of how concurrent state and federal sentences run. When he got to the feds they essentially just put him in a medium rather than keeping him in administrative segregation for whatever reason. I mean, the feds put Whitey in a straight max and he was killed within something like 8 hours, so they have form for this.

The second part is more the issue as the American prison system is a factory for creating violent criminals.

Also, prisons are overcrowded, but I certainly don't suggest building more prisons.

Another problem in the USA is that there is a lack of mental health treatment and severely mentally ill people are put in jail and prison and in and out, becoming worse and worse.

How are prisons in places like Norway more manageable? Because there are fewer people in, less crowding, and an attempt at reform - and this happens despite there being a lower percentage of people there for things like drug crimes.

US prison overcrowding and the level of violence and mental illness in US prisons is largely the result of draconian sentencing, and also the treatment of ex-convicts.

This. Making the story about crimes committed by chauvin is part of a serious problem.

chauvin is a shite but he has been convicted and he should be safe and treated to a reasonable standard. As should all prisoners.

And how are we going to ensure safety of all inmates in this magical prison of yours?

A lot to be done but for starters:

Ban private prisons or profiteering from it in anyway
Have far less people in prison

Then I'd make it illegal to put anyone in prison unless it meets legal criteria for their safety and other reaonable standards. I think they would then somehow magically find a way.

Sure, those are fine ideas (I don't know about #3 tbh, might make it a bit too easy to game the system), but I don't know that any of them are going to make prison hugely safer. Without going into a huge amount of detail, there are already plenty of measures in US prisons to try and ensure inmate safety, but where there is a will there is a way and all that.

In most US prisons an inmate can ask to be taken to solitary confinement at any time if he fears for his life, and high risk inmates usually have to sign a waiver if they want to go to general population in the first place. It wouldn't surprise me if Chauvin signed it, as solitary confinement is not a fun place to be.

Bottom line - when you put a bunch of men who are predisposed to violence together in one place, it's going to be all but impossible to stamp out violence between them.

Violence in prison is hardly a new phenomenon, and it's hardly limited to the US. If you don't like it, don't go.

What does black have to do with anything?
Oh wait, you’re just trolling and playing the caricature of a demented left winger who yells Racist! and Bigot! whenever they disagree with anything someone says, right?
Right? Erm, right?

Cool, race has nothing to do with anything. I know conservatives are all about "law and order", so could you kindly direct me to the law which says that police officers can kill unarmed suspects? Thanks in advance.

The second part of what?

I still doing see you giving any reason why having fewer people in prison would make those are still imprisoned easier to manage. As you alluded to, if the main problem was overcrowding, then more prisons would be just as good of a solution.

Do you think the person who stabbed Chauvin was likely severely mentally ill?

I don't know why prisons in Norway are more manageable (if indeed they are), but two of your three reasons were just refuted and the third is extremely vague.

I do know a foolproof way to make sure US prisons aren't factories for creating violent criminals, but I'm sure you wouldn't like it.

Close them all?

Meh, beats what happening now.

What would that be more death penalties?

The second part of my post that you were responding to.

Yeah, the person who stapped Chauvin was likely severly mentally ill, it's nearly impossible that he wasn't really.

I wouldn't want more prisons built because in the real world they would just be filled and overcrowded. If you build it, they will come. It works like that.

Wat

Bro, do you have, like, the first clue about prison?

Never been in one, but I have worked closely with a number of people who have and I taught at a school for people who just got out and my wife taught in a prison. So some.

Ok, in which case I have no idea why on earth you'd reach the wild conclusion that if an inmate (especially an a priori high risk inmate!) got stabbed, the perpetrator was likely suffering from mental health issues. There are multiple stabbings in prisons all over the country daily over, e.g.:

- Disrespect
- Unpaid debt
- Beef from the streets
- Gang warfare
- Random arguments
- Strong arm robbery
- Failure to make extortion payments
- Drugs (and a bunch of subcategories thereof)
- Because the target is a sex offender
- Because the target is a snitch
- Because the target is a gang dropout
- Because the target is a cop

I could go on and on. Those are just the ones I came up with in 60 seconds. The number of random stabbings because the attacker is suffering from mental health issues is probably so minuscule as to be a rounding error. Your assertion is completely unfounded in reality.

The last bit is far too much like 'if you dont want to be beaten/murdered by cops then dont commit petty crimes'

The rest is far too dismissive. 'Solitary confinment' for example could cover a lot of ground. Pretty much all social interaction can go ahead wihtout any possibility of physical contact. You and I could play chess for example - face to face in just every respect except for the ability to scratch each others eyes out. I dont believe for a moment that the prison system is designed with prisioner safety (and other minium standards) as a key requirement. It's out of 'sight out of mind' for many and '**** em they deserve it' for many others.

I'm looking forward to the objection that 'yeah but it would cost so much'

I think you're using an absurdly restrictive definition of severely mentally ill.