Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Politics and Society Contentions, Controversies, and Conflicts

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-08-2021, 12:52 PM   #8151
itshotinvegas
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 6,776
Re: Police brutality and police reform (US)

Quote:
Originally Posted by King Spew View Post
But you said Floyd had "a lethal dose of fentanyl" in his body. So we are not talking about a healthy person. Lethal means he's essentially dead already.

But of course.... the facts are it was not a lethal dose.
...

Quote:
An overdose occurs when a drug produces serious adverse effects and life-threatening symptoms. When people overdose on fentanyl, their breathing can slow or stop
itshotinvegas is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2021, 01:00 PM   #8152
itshotinvegas
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 6,776
Re: Police brutality and police reform (US)

You folks don't understand. Casey Anthony "walked" because the prosecution could not prove what the criminal act was that resulted in the death of her child.

Pretty much everybody knows she killed her daughter, it just couldn't be proven. I think this is similar situation here, you have to show the criminal act and at what point it becomes criminal. Restraining a suspect isn't a criminal act.
itshotinvegas is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2021, 01:03 PM   #8153
King Spew
Antici
 
King Spew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: pation
Posts: 13,247
Re: Police brutality and police reform (US)

Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas View Post
You folks don't understand.
This is rich
King Spew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2021, 01:07 PM   #8154
itshotinvegas
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 6,776
Re: Police brutality and police reform (US)

Quote:
Originally Posted by King Spew View Post
This is rich
Well, you guys thinking bringing this type of analysis is some sort of defense of Chauvin but it's more or less an analysis of the situation, and will likely be a big factor if he's acquitted. I'm sorry you don't like that. It's a very difficult case to prove. You don't understand that so you're going to all be screaming when and if he gets acquitted, that ignorance is going to lead to people to rioting, if that were to occur.
itshotinvegas is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2021, 01:12 PM   #8155
parisron
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
parisron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 13,939
Re: Police brutality and police reform (US)

That doctor's testimony just now was brutal for the defense. I think the defense said they aren't even going to cross.
parisron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2021, 01:17 PM   #8156
RFlushDiamonds
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,743
Re: Police brutality and police reform (US)

Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas View Post
No, Trolly, the government has to prove at what minute does it become criminal...
Using deadly force against a prone and cuffed suspect is a felony.
RFlushDiamonds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2021, 01:27 PM   #8157
Cuepee
Pooh-Bah
 
Cuepee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,348
Re: Police brutality and police reform (US)

Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas View Post
No, Trolly, the government has to prove at what minute does it become criminal...
You just made that up.

There is nothing in the criminal code that requires such distinction.

The action can be criminal regardless of the time it was in place. It can be considered criminal simply because the person has submitted and you keep doing it anyway.

Stop making stuff and representing it as if factual.
Cuepee is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2021, 01:30 PM   #8158
King Spew
Antici
 
King Spew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: pation
Posts: 13,247
Re: Police brutality and police reform (US)

You said "lethal dose" in a prior post itshot, not overdose.
King Spew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2021, 01:37 PM   #8159
5 south
Pooh-Bah
 
5 south's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Lat Yao
Posts: 4,445
Re: Police brutality and police reform (US)

Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas View Post
Well, you guys thinking bringing this type of analysis is some sort of defense of Chauvin but it's more or less an analysis of the situation, and will likely be a big factor if he's acquitted. I'm sorry you don't like that. It's a very difficult case to prove. You don't understand that so you're going to all be screaming when and if he gets acquitted, that ignorance is going to lead to people to rioting, if that were to occur.
LOL
Can just see Sean Hannity or some other clown getting all fired up when cities are burning across the country that people just don't understand.
Actually they understand perfectly.

Hopefully the only question is whether the chomos are going to man up and make this guy's life hell in PC.
5 south is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2021, 02:42 PM   #8160
itshotinvegas
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 6,776
Re: Police brutality and police reform (US)

Quote:
"Do you have an opinion to a reasonable degree of medical certainty as to whether a person who had none of those preexisting conditions, a healthy person, would have died under the same circumstances as Mr. Floyd?" prosecutor Jerry Blackwell asked him.

"Yes. A healthy person subjected to what Mr. Floyd was subjected to would have died," Tobin said.

If the defense shows an exhibit that recreates the situation, and the person doesn't run out of oxygen within 6 minutes...

Quote:
A renowned pulmonary expert testified that he calculated Derek Chauvin’s knee was on George Floyd’s neck for more than 3 minutes after “there was not an ounce of oxygen left” in his body.
What do you think that's going to do to this guy's credibility?
itshotinvegas is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2021, 03:02 PM   #8161
Cuepee
Pooh-Bah
 
Cuepee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,348
Re: Police brutality and police reform (US)

Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas View Post
If the defense shows an exhibit that recreates the situation, and the person doesn't run out of oxygen within 6 minutes...



What do you think that's going to do to this guy's credibility?
Is this like your prior hypothetical that seemed to be 'wow' 'devastating' moments for you?


I honestly am not sure what you are saying here but I am guessing you are saying 'if they can demonstrate a knee on the neck where the guy does not die or blackout' that somehow would be bad?

Meaning you think that if one person grabs you in a rear naked choke and squeezes so hard you die in 3 minutes, and another person does it for 5 minutes but in a slightly different positioning and with less pressure and the person stays conscious that is somehow shocking.

---

I shot a guy and he died ....MURDER.

But I recreated it and shot a guy and he only got a flesh wound... ACQUIT!!!
Cuepee is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2021, 03:27 PM   #8162
itshotinvegas
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 6,776
Re: Police brutality and police reform (US)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuepee View Post
Is this like your prior hypothetical that seemed to be 'wow' 'devastating' moments for you?


I honestly am not sure what you are saying here but I am guessing you are saying 'if they can demonstrate a knee on the neck where the guy does not die or blackout' that somehow would be bad?

Meaning you think that if one person grabs you in a rear naked choke and squeezes so hard you die in 3 minutes, and another person does it for 5 minutes but in a slightly different positioning and with less pressure and the person stays conscious that is somehow shocking.

---

I shot a guy and he died ....MURDER.

But I recreated it and shot a guy and he only got a flesh wound... ACQUIT!!!
The point is, I don't think that statement can be backed up. He didn't say most likely, likely, or probably, but he said they would die. I think that statement can be easily disproven.

Again, it's not illegal for a cop to restrain a suspect, by the neck. Maybe it should be illegal. It is illegal to shoot someone, so your analogy is bullshit. Like, if your kids were to wrestle, and one of them pinned the other one down, and they end up suffocating, that's not murder.
itshotinvegas is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2021, 03:38 PM   #8163
nutella virus
old hand
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,507
Re: Police brutality and police reform (US)

Vegas I can honestly say this forum wouldn't be the same without you
nutella virus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2021, 03:55 PM   #8164
Cuepee
Pooh-Bah
 
Cuepee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,348
Re: Police brutality and police reform (US)

Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas View Post
The point is, I don't think that statement can be backed up. He didn't say most likely, likely, or probably, but he said they would die. I think that statement can be easily disproven.

Again, it's not illegal for a cop to restrain a suspect, by the neck. Maybe it should be illegal. It is illegal to shoot someone, so your analogy is bullshit. Like, if your kids were to wrestle, and one of them pinned the other one down, and they end up suffocating, that's not murder.
Right but you keep treating jurors like they are idiots.


Just because you think it would be 'devastating' to see the Defense stage a knee on neck and the person not die, you should not assume a jury would take that comment as an absolute as opposed to a situational comment.


Do you really think the jury now thinks 'every such situation, staged or not' will result in death' and they will say 'we are holding you to that literally'?


Or do you think you are flailing around looking for any of the thinnest reasons to convince yourself it would be justified to acquit??
Cuepee is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2021, 04:02 PM   #8165
corpus vile
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Dunwich
Posts: 3,773
Re: Police brutality and police reform (US)

Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas View Post
No, Trolly, the government has to prove at what minute does it become criminal...
Not sure if you're speaking figuratively or literally here but if it's the latter then I'm pretty sure that's untrue. Prosecution don't need to pare things down to the minute, they need to prove how Chauvin's actions falls under one of the degrees of murder under law. Abusing a technique- even an approved one-which leads to the death of a suspect can quite possibly fall under one of those degrees. They don't need to show at what actual minute this occurred.
corpus vile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2021, 04:08 PM   #8166
corpus vile
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Dunwich
Posts: 3,773
Re: Police brutality and police reform (US)

Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas View Post
The issue is, and it's a reasonable issue, the length of time the restraint was on. Obviously, the length of time the restraint was on contributed to Flyod's death. If the restraint was held due to the threat of the crowd, and potential threat of the suspect, and if those are reasonable considerations in maintaining the restraint (to which the prosecution's use of force witnesses testified to)... It calls into question whether Chauvin ctually committed a crime.
If the length contributed to GF's death then Chauvin did indeed commit a crime. A cop already testified that he didn't perceive the crowd as a threat, so his defence opining they were hostile doesn't really hold water.
corpus vile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2021, 04:08 PM   #8167
Indynirish
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 91
Re: Police brutality and police reform (US)

Since this is a poker forum.....what do people think the current odds for acquittal are?

100:1
10:1
1:1

From what I am reading here.....ISIV seems to be around 1:2. (He didn't say this, I am just estimating off of what I read)
Cuepee seems to be about 2:1. (Same caveat, Cuepee never said anything like this, I am speculating)
Everyone else seems to be in 100:1 or greater range. (100:1 seems low for several here, but again, no one expressed odds)

That said, if any of the 100:1 people want to put up 1k against my $10, I'm all for it.
Indynirish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2021, 04:17 PM   #8168
Slighted
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Slighted's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 14,969
Re: Police brutality and police reform (US)

Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas View Post
You folks don't understand. Casey Anthony "walked" because the prosecution could not prove what the criminal act was that resulted in the death of her child.

Pretty much everybody knows she killed her daughter, it just couldn't be proven. I think this is similar situation here, you have to show the criminal act and at what point it becomes criminal. Restraining a suspect isn't a criminal act.
good to know we have an expert on the case.....
Slighted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2021, 04:56 PM   #8169
RFlushDiamonds
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,743
Re: Police brutality and police reform (US)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indynirish View Post

That said, if any of the 100:1 people want to put up 1k against my $10, I'm all for it.

I wouldn't take a 100 to one bridge jumper but you may actually be giving way too long odds here.
RFlushDiamonds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2021, 04:57 PM   #8170
RFlushDiamonds
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,743
Re: Police brutality and police reform (US)

Quote:
Originally Posted by nutella virus View Post
Vegas I can honestly say this forum wouldn't be the same without you
I'm pretty sure he's been trolling us for a while now.

But hell, he owns me. I can't help but react.
RFlushDiamonds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2021, 05:20 PM   #8171
Cuepee
Pooh-Bah
 
Cuepee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,348
Re: Police brutality and police reform (US)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indynirish View Post
Since this is a poker forum.....what do people think the current odds for acquittal are?

100:1
10:1
1:1

From what I am reading here.....ISIV seems to be around 1:2. (He didn't say this, I am just estimating off of what I read)
Cuepee seems to be about 2:1. (Same caveat, Cuepee never said anything like this, I am speculating)
Everyone else seems to be in 100:1 or greater range. (100:1 seems low for several here, but again, no one expressed odds)

That said, if any of the 100:1 people want to put up 1k against my $10, I'm all for it.
I would not put it any better than 1:1.

Again I would not be shocked if people like IHIV are eager to get on the jury, these days, to nullify it along partisan lines given any excuse they cling to.


This is the same State that said the cop shoot of Philando Castile was a good shoot.

Cuepee is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2021, 05:35 PM   #8172
lozen
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
lozen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 17,398
Re: Police brutality and police reform (US)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indynirish View Post
Since this is a poker forum.....what do people think the current odds for acquittal are?

100:1
10:1
1:1

From what I am reading here.....ISIV seems to be around 1:2. (He didn't say this, I am just estimating off of what I read)
Cuepee seems to be about 2:1. (Same caveat, Cuepee never said anything like this, I am speculating)
Everyone else seems to be in 100:1 or greater range. (100:1 seems low for several here, but again, no one expressed odds)

That said, if any of the 100:1 people want to put up 1k against my $10, I'm all for it.

Before the trial I thought this was an acquittal but after the prosecutions witnesses I have it at manslaughter . Will wait for the full defense but I still have this at an acquittal and 3 innocent folks get killed in the riots
lozen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2021, 06:35 PM   #8173
itshotinvegas
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 6,776
Re: Police brutality and police reform (US)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuepee View Post
I would not put it any better than 1:1.

Again I would not be shocked if people like IHIV are eager to get on the jury, these days, to nullify it along partisan lines given any excuse they cling to.


This is the same State that said the cop shoot of Philando Castile was a good shoot.

You are pathetic.
itshotinvegas is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2021, 06:56 PM   #8174
Cuepee
Pooh-Bah
 
Cuepee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,348
Re: Police brutality and police reform (US)

Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas View Post
You are pathetic.
I think the defense got a witness to admit to the hypothetical that 'if Orlando was indeed reaching for his gun and was planning to shoot the cop....'


"Devastating".

Last edited by Cuepee; 04-08-2021 at 07:11 PM.
Cuepee is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2021, 07:08 PM   #8175
itshotinvegas
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 6,776
Re: Police brutality and police reform (US)

Whatever...
itshotinvegas is online now   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:07 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive