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Police brutality and police reform (US) Police brutality and police reform (US)

08-05-2020 , 11:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by micro dong
So if you buy a cycling team for $20,000,000 are you going to make a black guy a captain at the Tour De France? Hint: pretty much the only people who are qualified for this position are white or columbian. But hey, it's your money.
Good call, man. The qualifications to be one of the top cyclists in the world are definitely as common as those necessary for working retail. I am owned.
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08-05-2020 , 11:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by micro dong
It triggers leftists.
You guys know that most of the businesses are happy to cooperate and understand the political massage that requires discussion right ?

Only a few business owners took offense. And only then because they didn't like to feel as if they were being pushed around.

The actual problem of gentrification isn't in dispute. Except on Fox News I gather.
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08-05-2020 , 12:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelhus100
The leftist MSM does the same thing. Except they pass on a lot of stories, and in the stories they do cover pass on a lot of the details, for ideological reasons.

Ironically, because it is more interested in sensationalism than ideology, DailyMail will often do much more thorough reporting of US news than the US MSM.
You know, we could have goofy write a bot that makes this post in a random front page thread once a day for you. It would save a lot of trouble. And look, you forgot to mention narratives! A bot would never make that mistake.
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08-05-2020 , 12:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFlushDiamonds
Where are you getting that opinion from ?

Murder 2 does not include premeditation. It merely includes 'intent' which can still easily be established given the 10 minutes he choked him out and the fact that he continued to kneel on his neck for minutes after Floyd was unresponsive (already dead).
And the "intent" can be implied and not explicit.

Meaning if swing a shovel at your head. full strength and kill you, I did not have to have the explicit intent to kill you but since it is 'implied' or should be known, that action could likely cause death, then that is enough for Murder 2.


So his defense against this would be to show many examples of video cops using a similar restraint tactic and the person not dying, while the prosecution would make the case that the TIME he maintained it is the differentiator.


I do think juries, having a very tangible cop bias generally, may give him a pass on M2, if his defense is any good.
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08-05-2020 , 12:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuepee


Cops need to be retrained, as they once were, not that long ago, that if you draw down and threaten someone's life like that you better be able to justify a real threat.
I couldn't agree more.

They also need to be screened better and only the men and women with a certain degree of mental toughness should be hired

They should expect to get a few cuts a bruises in the line of duty.
Their first priority shouldn't be to 'get home' every day. It should be to 'do their job' just like everyone else's first priority is.

We're trained a culture of king babies and given them no boundaries.

Any child psychologist would probably have predicted the outcome.
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08-05-2020 , 12:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuepee
And the "intent" can be implied and not explicit.

Meaning if swing a shovel at your head. full strength and kill you, I did not have to have the explicit intent to kill you but since it is 'implied' or should be known, that action could likely cause death, then that is enough for Murder 2.


So his defense against this would be to show many examples of video cops using a similar restraint tactic and the person not dying, while the prosecution would make the case that the TIME he maintained it is the differentiator.


I do think juries, having a very tangible cop bias generally, may give him a pass on M2, if his defense is any good.

If this forum is any indication it will easily be a hung jury.
But hopefully not. The video is sickening.

There really is no defense unless the jurors are sociopaths themselves.
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08-05-2020 , 12:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by micro dong
So if you buy a cycling team for $20,000,000 are you going to make a black guy a captain at the Tour De France? Hint: pretty much the only people who are qualified for this position are white or columbian. But hey, it's your money.
The 'if we do not have more white NBA players', then work place equity is wrong, fallacy.
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08-05-2020 , 12:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuepee
The 'if we do not have more white NBA players', then work place equity is wrong, fallacy.
it was wookie who brought up the NBA no doubt due to his problematic belief that only black men can jump.
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08-05-2020 , 12:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFlushDiamonds
I couldn't agree more.

They also need to be screened better and only the men and women with a certain degree of mental toughness should be hired

They should expect to get a few cuts a bruises in the line of duty.
Their first priority shouldn't be to 'get home' every day. It should be to 'do their job' just like everyone else's first priority is.

We're trained a culture of king babies and given them no boundaries.

Any child psychologist would probably have predicted the outcome.
I've said it many times.

Cops have the absolute lowest standard when it comes to application of deadly force.

Despite their oath to 'Serve and Protect'. Despite their training.

If you or I shoot someone, we better be able to prove they had offered a REAL and CURRENT threat. It is not enough for us to say "I thought the cell phone was a gun and I acted out of fear of that...'


If a soldier, even in an active War Zone, is around citizens, he cannot mistakenly shoot a citizen without FIRST identifying a threat. A 'fear of a threat' is not enough. He is expected to accept some risk and be sure, and then be able to demonstrate after that the threat was INDEED real.


Cops, in most jurisdictions, do not have identify any threat. There doesn't have to be any threat at all and it after the fact it can be found that is was simple mistake (but a deadly one). And all the cop has to do to justify his mistake and the murder, is convince the jury 'that if they or any reasonable person was in the same spot they might be scared too, and thus act to protect themselves too'.


A standard that would not be acceptable to you or I or the soldier, but is for cops. Ridiculous. Cops should have the highest standard before killing and not the lowest. They SERVE the citizens. Some risk assumption FIRST should be the standard.

And by 'accept risk', I mean they should not draw down on people like this...




.. they can take the risk that they have the numbers and the better position, that even if suddenly MOm and Kids did decide to die in a blaze of glory shoot out, the cops would easily defend themselves.
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08-05-2020 , 12:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by micro dong
it was wookie who brought up the NBA no doubt due to his problematic belief that only black men can jump.
OK, name another industry where you think Black people are unfairly overrepresented
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08-05-2020 , 12:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelhus100
The leftist MSM does the same thing. Except they pass on a lot of stories, and in the stories they do cover pass on a lot of the details, for ideological reasons.

Ironically, because it is more interested in sensationalism than ideology, DailyMail will often do much more thorough reporting of US news than the US MSM.
It's not that the Daily Mail is out there reporting on what the mainstream media won't report, it's that they're being a filter. And yes the mainstream media, to a large extent is a filter too. But while slightly different than a mere ideology, their sensationalism is based on an ideology that you can gleam right? They're not doing a ton of articles based on industrial farm abuse that might be sensationalist to environmentalists, etc. They have a profile of the person their looking to sensationalize.

Last edited by Huehuecoyotl; 08-05-2020 at 12:52 PM.
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08-05-2020 , 12:43 PM
the forcing the African american family onto the pavement because the officers don't understand that different states can have the same plate numbers, and that a grand Cherokee isn't in fact a stolen motorcycle is a great example of overreach. they have children cuffed and laying face down on asphalt because they believed wrongly that a car might be stolen. no threat of violence, no silly "fear for their lives".. they were just mad at them.


anecdotally i've had that exact thing happen to me, minus all the having to get out of the vehicle , being assaulted, wrongly handcuffed, and thrown to the ground when an officer thought he recognized a stolen pickup in the same color and make as mine.. but i was only asked for my license and registration..
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08-05-2020 , 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by MrWookie
This would appear to be an admission that there is racism in hiring practices, and that straight up hiring more Black people would not cause harm to the business, as you previously suggested.



In the corporate world, we have, e.g., resume studies that show that equally qualified Black people are less likely to be receive interviews just for being Black. Do you have similar evidence that identically qualified white NBA players can't get a roster spot that a Black player can?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
If the "most qualified" candidate is almost always white, then that's pretty much an open admission that the business thinks Black people and other people of color are less qualified, which is pretty racist.
Such disingenuous arguments.

Hiring practices that are anything beyond most qualified are asinine and an awful way to run a business, and trying to extort businesses into doing anything but that is just as asinine.
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08-05-2020 , 01:09 PM
"extort"
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08-05-2020 , 01:21 PM
"Meet our demands, or we will damage your property"

pretty classic extortion
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08-05-2020 , 01:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
OK, name another industry where you think Black people are unfairly overrepresented
I dunno. Blacked.com? I don't think it makes sense to look at where people are overrepresented. That's not generally a good way to spot discrimination. Maybe you don't get many women in the crabbing industry because they don't like it. On the other hand you can prove people are being pushed out by asking if a business is fulfilling quota demands.
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08-05-2020 , 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by xnbomb
"Meet our demands, or we will damage your property"

pretty classic extortion
I take it you also didn’t read the letter.
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08-05-2020 , 01:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xnbomb
Such disingenuous arguments.

Hiring practices that are anything beyond most qualified are asinine and an awful way to run a business, and trying to extort businesses into doing anything but that is just as asinine.
Hiring practices beyond who is most qualified is the status quo.
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08-05-2020 , 01:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl
It's not that the Daily Mail is out there reporting on what the mainstream media won't report, it's that they're being a filter. And yes the mainstream media, to a large extent is a filter too. But while slightly different than a mere ideology, their sensationalism is based on an ideology that you can gleam right? They're not doing a ton of articles based on industrial farm abuse that might be sensationalist to environmentalists, etc. They have a profile of the person their looking to sensationalize.
All tabloids should want to put the most sensationalist stories on their front page to sell the most papers. "Filtering out" boring stories that people aren't going to read anyway is good editing.

Filtering out stories because they harm narratives is something else.
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08-05-2020 , 01:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson
I take it you also didn’t read the letter.
Fake news.
Quote:
Fernando Martinez, owner of La Bodeguita de Mima, on East Market Street, claimed that after a protest closed the street on July 24, demonstrators told him he “better put [the list of demands] on the door so your business is not f---ed with.”
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08-05-2020 , 01:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by micro dong
I dunno. Blacked.com? I don't think it makes sense to look at where people are overrepresented. That's not generally a good way to spot discrimination. Maybe you don't get many women in the crabbing industry because they don't like it. On the other hand you can prove people are being pushed out by asking if a business is fulfilling quota demands.
Damn man, can you guys see my browsing history or something?
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08-05-2020 , 01:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
I'm not sure. Are Black people inherently worse employees, and is that why fewer of them are hired? Or, is just not liking Black people a good reason not to hire them (they don't fit well in your company if you don't like them, after all)?
There are reasons people hire others that could be different between 2 or more races race. For example if a higher % of one race has a high school diploma or have some college experience than another race I assume the higher educated race would have lower unemployment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuepee
False dichotomy question that presupposes that POC and women (both facing the same challenge) cannot also be equally qualified and there is only one magicly applicable new employ who just so happens to be overwhelmingly a white male.

The better question is 'why overwhelmingly, despite choice (Women and POC) and equally comparable qualifications did corporations for decades and decades still seem to have the same hiring patterns (overwhelming white males in key positions) and should corporations make moves to correct that.

That answer is, YES.
Do you have source that shows with all else equal women and POC have been and still are discriminated against by corporate hiring practices?
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08-05-2020 , 01:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson
"extort"
Are you calling into question if BLM is extorting these businesses?

As pointed out multiple times ITT BLM members said their business would be "****ed with" as well as get protested against, called out on social media and they would set up tents outside their business to compete with them unless they followed their demands to hire and buy things from black people or paid them 1.5% of their revenues.

Saying hire us or pay us or we will hurt you is eerily similar to how webster describes extortion.
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08-05-2020 , 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by bahbahmickey
There are reasons people hire others that could be different between 2 or more races race. For example if a higher % of one race has a high school diploma or have some college experience than another race I assume the higher educated race would have lower unemployment.
Thanks for popping in to show you haven't been following the conversation.

Quote:
Do you have source that shows with all else equal women and POC have been and still are discriminated against by corporate hiring practices?
Yes.
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08-05-2020 , 02:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bahbahmickey
Are you calling into question if BLM is extorting these businesses?

As pointed out multiple times ITT BLM members said their business would be "****ed with" as well as get protested against, called out on social media and they would set up tents outside their business to compete with them unless they followed their demands to hire and buy things from black people or paid them 1.5% of their revenues.

Saying hire us or pay us or we will hurt you is eerily similar to how webster describes extortion.
Social media callouts, property damage, same thing!
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