That both Dems and GOP almost always, if not always, give the Pentagon a bigger budget than they come to ask for each year proves that to be true. That the Pentagon does not have to keep a tight audit trail of where that money goes, speaks to that.

The 'Nato needs to pay' is both true and a Trump pushed right talking point. For decades the US leveraged the fact they were the defacto policeman and paid more into NATO and the UN as a flex of their power and extension of it. It was a way to help keep all the other nations in line. Much like CHina is leveraging its new silk road now to try and create a similar dynamic, as they want to make sure they can have defacto control of the UN and then get the UN to bless their worst actions.

So fine if you are repeating that point out of some feeling, as a Canadian that we and other nations need to pay more. Fair enough. But if you are uncritically pushing it simply because you heard Trump beat that drum... then again, you got caught.

Re the last point, I don't believe anyone but Ukraine should decide what they will take but I would agree it would be wise for them to consider any such offer, especially with the threat of a GOP takeover of the House who can instantly put Ukraine in a terrible spot, and i think will by saying 'Negotiate a deal with Russia by this date or we cut funding'.

I absolutely think that is what the House will do. They will keep repeating they are just seeking 'Peace', when they know that then transfers most of the power in the negotiation to Putin. He can demand far more than they are wiling to give knowing they need to get a deal done within a time frame and he does not. I hope if it plays out that way you won't buy into the GOP House talking point and will be more critical than that.

lastly, the most important people in the equation, the generals who are the only hope of stopping a rogue POTUS, feared Trump having the nuclear button so much they did things that he could have fired them for, by putting in processes to protect the world from him. He alone, amongst all other POTUS they feared to this degree.

And I understand you say 'who cares what top generals think because I am lozen and post on 2+2 and have my own special insights. Here are some 'whataboutisms' for you all to consider.

But I would invite you to reflect critically on how you got there. How you can simply hand wave away and dismiss the top military brass so easily in this area while think and maintaining whatever insights you have are the more important in this consideration?


And what i am not saying is that it is wrong for you to have been duped by right leaning talking points. As that can happen. I am just seeking if you can step back and examine it yourself with any critical eye.

I'm very critical, unlike you Victor.

So that means when we hear Putin say that he believes it was a great wrong for Russia (prior USSR) to cede independance to those nations and it is a grievous wrong, and then subsequently he proceeds to invade or support wars to reestablish Russian dominance in Crimea, Chechnya, Georgia, Ukraine, I believe him.

But I also realize many time Dictators will like in self serving ways such as your 'protect Russia from Nazi's' comment.

See that is where we differ Victor. You take the approach he lied about Nazi thus every thing has to be treated as a lie. There is no critical thinking in that, just formula.

I see that he can lie when it serves him and reveal the truth other times. ANd that is the essence of critical thinking.

do you believe Putin when he says he does not want to "revive the USSR".

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...on-2022-09-30/

no, in fact you only believe the narratives pushed by the Western media and regurgitated by Reddit and Twitter.

I really dont know why Putin invaded. probably has something to do with resources and sphere or influence or whatever boring geopolitical thing. but the West would have you believe that he is just an evil dictator that wants to do a genocide and bring back the Soviet Union. I mean, maybe?

As said prior Victor, unlike you I can assess this with nuance.

Just as Trump says both 'we only want peaceful protest' before inciting people to riot, I understand that looking to singular statements as illustrative is often a fools measure.


For Putin you need to look to his over long form speeches and ramblings and writings on this topic and ACTIONS and when you do so, there is no denying he feels the loss of the prior USSR and freeing of those nations was the biggest mistake. He has supported numerous covert operations to re-establish defacto control of many of those break away nations and lauinched all out war to take over more of them.

Facts are on my side Victor, unlike you who read one Trump like 'both sides' statement and gets duped by it.

The guy is verifiably obsessed with his version of Russian history, which coincidentally paints Ukraine and other formerly Soviet republics as really actually Russia. He doesn't want to bring back the USSR because he sees that as a mistake. All those lands were really Russian and should never have been given any autonomy. He didn't write this for fun: http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/66181


That said, I don't think he's insane. He's not going to try to blitzkrieg across former imperial land. If he could, he would, but he knows he can't. All the historical stuff and the nazi talk is about justification for military intervention because Ukraine wanting to shed Russian influence in their politics means big money lost to Russians and power and prestige lost to Putin. Ukraine turning to the West is a further insult to and diminishing of the once great Russia. I think there's a real mesh of bs historical justification and Putin's ego being wrapped up in the power and history of the Russian state that is hard to disentangle.

No you really can't. You haven't ever disagreed with a man stream neoliberal viewpoint in your life.

Like you cat even understand that not everyone who disagrees with you is a Trumper.

I would not think for a minute Victor is aware of that Putin writing or his more detailed pronouncements on this topic.

I honestly think of him more like a Trump fan booster. He keys in on a few sound bite statements said or fed to him and is convinced trump is innocent of everything, while being unaware of the full context.

if he has read that or heard Putins broader musings, then hs is just being dishonest using Trump like soundbites to counter.

Except none of that is true. I do not think most people who disagree with me are Trumpers.

I do not think you are a Trumper. But I can draw similarities in how Trump fanatism leads people to accept irrational arguments and soundbites and the parallels to you. that is not a claim you like or support Trump.

And i absolutely disagree with many main stream neoliberal viewpoints, so you simply are not getting a single thing correct.

I am absolutely aware of the narrative pushed by the mainstream media about Putin. and as usual, I am skeptical of it. bc you know, they lie a lot.

the more anyone thinks about it, the more rediculous it sounds that he wants to remake the Soviet Union. I dont see a right wing oligarch about to reinstate collectivization or price controls. its just the media using a scary word (zomg Soviet Union so evil) and credulous lackeys eating up the propaganda.

its a lot more mundane to think he wants Ukraine bc of oil and resources. much scarier to say that he is Hitler part 2 and that he wants to bring back the scare Red Menace Soviet Union like Joe Stalin. when you think about it, hes basically Hitler and Stalin together. which means that the West should do everything it can to stop him. and if anyone disagrees then it means they like genocide. manufacturing consent.

Totalitarian nationalism of the usual kind. He believes that Ukraine is rightly Russia's (Kievan Rus being the original medieval cradle of Russian culture) and, like any dictator, he needs an external enemy as well as internal enemies, and he needs a war, to make him look big and important as the supposed defender of his people and 'rally his base'.

No doubt they lie a lot and thus why you must look in totality what they say not just in a sound bite or to a select audience (how you got duped) and instead must listen to what they say over long period of time.

There is no denying one of the most consistent themes over time by Putin where he ahs expressed the most words, is his regret over the loss of the USSR and his feeling of some form of violation that these independent nations (prior part of Russia) exist. when you couple that with his actual invasions it is crystal clear .

And Russia by global standards is basically a failing Nation under Putins reign due to overwhelming kleptocracy of the oligarchs.

The way to hide Russia's failure is both by stealing the wealth of other nations and more specifically with Ukraine, stopping their year over success and growth which was like a finger in the eye of Putin.

Every year since Putin's puppet was pushed out of Ukraine the GSp has improved impressively and Ukraine was on the verge of seeing significant influxes of outside capital investment. Odessa was already seeing it. As long as Ukraine kept improving on the reforms it was on a path to soar and there is no way Putin could have that on his borders. Not just for security reasons but because the Russian people knew too many Ukrainians and if they saw them soar while their economy stagnated and the main thing Ukraine did was 'push Putin out', ... well that is a story line Putin needed to end.

Ah, well, no wonder you have such strong opinions on the issue!

well I dont credulously read articles and get duped into believing whatever the standard neolib mainstream narrative is put out there like QP.

as much fun as it is to get outraged and believe this crap, I dont see any evidence that Putin is trying to bring back the Red Menace. its a fun story tho, and it makes it really easy to get outraged. but I dont see collectivization, price controls, and a technological and standard of living increases for the Russians any time soon.

Talk of Putin rebuilding the USSR or Russian empire are meant to mean Putin has ambitions of bringing areas formally under Russian central control back to that arrangement. No one means it literally and I think you know that.

No one believes Putin wants to recreate the actual USSR. It has to do with making Russia great again, restoring past glory (if it ever existed) and fixing the perceived wrongs at the end of the cold war.

It has some similarities to Germany in WW2 trying to right the perceived wrongs of the first world war (like the stab in the back theory) and the Versailles treaty. But the Nazis weren't trying to reinstall the Kaiserreich.

right but they are evoking ideas around the Soviet Union for a reason.

in general, the media is not factually wrong. but they present certain things in a certain way. and I find it important and illuminating to ask why. QP and the libs just lap up exactly what they presenting.

I dunno, its like the libs have never seen the 1 minute long Chomsky video. if they understood it then they would be way ahead of the curve. but their credulity is like a the security blanket I had when I was 5.

Are you really this stupid? All of the places Putin has invaded belonged to the Soviet Union. No one means he is bringing back communism. Even though your people get a big boner when it comes to Russia. Even though they're literally the oligarchs you claim to hate.

Chomsky is a moron whose only political opinions mirrors your (America bad. Something something imperialism [never mind you support imperialism when its your side doing it]). You are still stuck at 5.

You're not even a communist. You just have mish mashed views like all the social media far leftists.

Seriously? QP has his flaws as a poster, but he disagrees with the liberal mainstream in this forum literally every day. He has personally started at least two active threads which criticize the US liberal mainstream.

Truer words have never been spoken.

I have never understood anyone giving Chomsky any credit. I studied some linguistics, his actual field, and I thought his main ideas there were nutty and even quasi-religious.
I really have no idea how he ever got taken seriously for his political opinions. There is no more reason to listen to him for politics or economics than to listen to someone like Brad Pitt or Bono.

sounds like we agree that saying Putin is invading Ukraine bc of something about the Soviet Union is a pretty dumb thing to say. hmm, wonder why thats the main media narrative from the West. its so pervasive that people like you and QP take it as fact and get really upset at the inconsistencies.

theres lot of former Soviet states that Putin hasnt invaded. and even tho he invaded Chechnya, it didnt get annexed into Russia. likewise he helped invade Georgia and didnt take it over, or even the breakaway states he was helping.

so we've established Putin isnt going to do Communism. hes an oligarch antithetical to Communish. and he hasnt taken over and former Soviet Republics.

so again, why are he comparing him to the Soviet Union?

It's just such a mystery why a dictator would want to expand his domain. Can't figure out what's in it for Putin.

it seems to be for the people who think he is trying to recreate the Soviet Union. try to keep up Trolly.

Nothing Victor says is accurate and he knows that and does not care. He has been duped and just lashes out emotionally against those who call him out on it using his template slur, which is what he thinks is the worst thing he can call anyone...."A neoliberal".

If you bullet point all of the Neoliberal ideological planks

Neoliberalism is contemporarily used to refer to market-oriented reform policies such as

- eliminating price controls
- deregulating capital markets
- lowering trade barriers
- reducing, especially through privatization and austerity, state influence in the economy.

I argue against each and everyone of these on this forum as much as any other issues I address.

But just as I said with how Victor has no grasp of the over all context of Putin and just thinks his sound bite knowledge is enough, he expresses views on me based on a similar path.