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Originally Posted by RFlushDiamonds
Well, it's easy to see what works if you study history and pay attention.
Of course you have to define your goals. My goal is always a strong and growing middle class with wealth and benefits being shared among the population to the extent possible. Not any sort of all are equal utopia, as I think money motivates people in a (mostly) positive way. I just don't think anyone should be allowed to accumulate too much money as money is power.
So are there policies that promote my goals ? Yes. Guys like Bernie tend to endorse them. Guys like Biden don't.
Sure politics is complicated. So is medicine but doctors pay attention and gather data and can make some pretty accurate observations.
Sure. I've studied a fair amount of history, and I still don't find it easy for me. Some broad scale things seem pretty solid - eg getting rid of slavery has been a huge success - but for a lot of stuff I'm much less confident. This isn't to say that I don't have views on policy, just that I'm not surprised at all to find people who disagree on what seems to me reasonable grounds, even if I support a policy for moral reasons.
As for goals, we are pretty close it sounds like. I also support a strong middle class and want the benefits of modern society to be shared with all, including the worst off. The main difference is that I'm not really bothered by people who earn or have a lot of money (eg billionaires). While I have views on how to structure taxation optimally, I don't really care much about the level of taxation in the US (as long as federal government finances are in good shape). We are below median for taxes for OECD countries, so it seems reasonable to me to raise taxes if needed for government policy.
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Yeah, I think we agree. He's electable on paper. He may win. The question is, what does he do once he's in power.
I agree. While I think electability was a major reason why most voters voted for Biden, imo people should generally just vote for whoever they think will do the best job as president.
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Why are you applying the 'normal motives of politicians' ?
We aren't talking about local politics. We're talking about the Democratic party on the national level. The big leagues. You honestly can't imagine Pelosi working with McConnell to make sure they both keep raking in millions ?
I wouldn't make the same argument even at the state level. But that's not what we're talking about here.
My own prior is that state and city-level politicians tend to be more corrupt than national politicians, so I'll have to challenge the premise here. And yeah, I find it difficult to believe that Pelosi would conspire with McConnell to throw the election. She would instantly lose her job and reputation if that ever became public. She is already very wealthy and could make much more money by taking a private sector job. There is no evidence of her "raking in millions" anyway, you're just speculating here.
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As far as fooling the voters. Bill Clinton's policies directly resulted in the 2008 recession. How many Democratic voters ever mention that ?
Most voters are easy. They just vote for the guy/party they did last time.
This seems like an unhelpful example. Bill Clinton's voters stayed loyal to party leadership in part because they thought Bill Clinton did a good job as president, just as they do for Obama. GOP voters didn't stay loyal - they rejected their party leadership and chose Trump, in part because they thought George W Bush did not do a very good job as president. You might believe Clinton directly caused the 2008 recession, but I'm doubtful most Democrats believe that (I don't).
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Sorry, I actually didn't mean that as a personal attack. I get the feeling you do a lot. I was just giving my impression of the center Dems in general.
Cheers, no worries.