I think the confusion is that you meant a stationary van operated by a moving company whereas to a non-native speaker it just sounds like a van that is moving.

Fair enough. You are correct about what I meant.

Yes i am very in favour of vigilantism in the many cases where you don't either have public law enforcement, or private guards

they can all pass over the body if it stays in the way

Were you always this much of a humanitarian, or have you just mellowed with age?

as for the van example it might very well have a permit to do so (they usually have those if they are relocation companies) so it's a totally different story , at most we should allow people to send photographs, if there was no permit the van is sequestered and sold as a fine and the photographer gets half the fine.

Keep in mind i am discussing mainly bridges, highways, and venues in general where there is no legitimate "by feet" use by the population, you keep bringing up examples of mixed (not motor vehicle exclusive) use roads in heavy urban settings

You can't get a permit to double park a moving van in NYC. But if it makes you feel better, assume that the guy confirmed to me that he does not have a permit.

Also, I am not talking about a mixed use street. Many one way streets in NYC are relatively narrow and are one way. But they most certainly are not for pedestrians. And if a large vehicle double parks, it can make it impossible for other vehicles to pass.

Can I kill him now in your ideal world?

just wrote about that

legitimate defense there would be to try to move the van away by any mean necessary. Remember it's not about punishment rather fixing the problem. If the guy has the keys you can confront him violently to get the keys yes, if he gives them to you (or if he moves toward to van to drive it away) then you can't kill him.

Is it common in NYC to have vans stopping all traffic by double parking? in italy double parking is common but only where you can still drive on the side, if you double park where it blocks traffic you know you have lost your vehicle + you risk a criminal prosecution (and you know 100% they can know who you are from the plate) so i have never heard of that happening

Damn it we want to know when we can kill this uncooperative selfish *******. Can we at least give him a light baseball batting for being working class? Can we just do that anyway without the van in play?

Or how about this scenario? I see a guy parking in front of a fire hydrant near my building. I tell him that he is parking illegally, and he says "whatever."

By blocking the fire hydrant, he obviously is putting my apartment at risk in the event of a fire. Surely I can slit this guy's throat in your ideal world?

What could possibly go wrong?

What is the rationale for not allowing me to kill this guy in your ideal world? This jerk off is blocking traffic every bit as much as the exhibitionist that you are allowed to run over in your ideal world

I think you have to set your apartment building on fire first, so that the potential danger crystallises. Then you're justified in giving him a ticket to the upper room.

damage isn't imminent, that's a very straightforward example of calling law enforcement to remove the vehicle. Statistical risk is something others use to justify violence not me (see mask mandates and stuff).

Only thing that should be changed from current application of the rules is you should be able to photograph as proof (if he moves it away before law enforcement arrives, fine is the same), fine should be really big (vehicle value at a minimum) and you should share in the fine

See, I told you.

Because killing the van owner doesn't solve the traffic being blocked. I mean if it's the only way to solve sure. But it hardly is. It's about fixing the block, self defense to restore property use to the proper use, not punishment.

If running toward the exhibitioner makes him stop and leave the ****ing road alone you aren't allowed to kill him just for fun or punishment.

Stuff could go wrong, but question should be, would it be worse than it is today where adult military age male don't intervene when horrible violence is occuring around them because rules punish them if they do?

not everyone is as heroic as Daniel Penny, who will be tried october this year because of rules i disagree with

And running over the exhibitionist (or threatening to do so) is the only way to solve that traffic problem?

Running toward him? You mean with your car? In most cases, that is going to mean running him over.

It could be a few hours before I can get this butthead's car towed. If the risk becomes imminent during that window (i.e., if my apartment catches fire), I'm screwed.

In Luciomtopia, it really feels like I ought to be allowed to take matters into my own hands. As d2 said, even if you won't allow me to give him a Colombian necktie, I at least should be allowed to break his arm to persuade him to move his car.

We also should consider that running people down with your car is messy business. Some people don't want to get their hands dirty (or **** up their car). That makes for some interesting business opportunities in Luciomtopia.

Even if I am not personally impacted, in an area where protesters or exhibitionists were disrupting traffic, for a fee, I could offer to run them over with a 25 year old, junker pick-up truck that I bought for $3000. I could make a few bucks out of this, although I would need to be careful about selecting the truck. Pick the wrong thing and you could be stuck cleaning gore out of the grill for hours, which would be a drag on the efficiency of the business.

I think a steam roller would probably be the best tool for the job. What you lose in time during, you save (and then some) after, for number of reasons. I suppose the drawback is that it would give them time to escape, but we get paid either way, right? The problem has been solved.

A steam roller would be ideal, but we are running a business here. Steam rollers are more expensive than old pick-up trucks, and fuel costs will be significant, so we need to make sure that there is enough demand to justify the overhead.

But it's probably a good idea. Who would hire you to run people over with a pick-up truck when I am offering to do this?



I also suggested that a dead body would block traffic. But if the steam roller is super heavy, maybe I would flatten these people enough to make the ride less bumpy for those behind me.

Right, that was my thinking behind saving time after. I assume in Luciomtopia we are responsible for disposing of the bodies we create (I guess otherwise we get a ticket for littering or something), so combining the creation and disposal into one process seems like it should give us the edge in efficiency over the competition.