i think the main point of contention was that even if they weren't involved in the rape, they were 100% there to mug people - there'd been numerous reports of a mugging spree going on in the park that night so even in the event they didn't rape meilee, they were still out there to commit crimes - not exactly good people let alone "innocent"

the medical evidence also suggests it was more than one attacker as well

the victim believes it was those men to this day and during the case the defense attorneys argued that she was a slut who was asking for it

Sluts asking to be gang raped exist in porn movies. I have been with a number of girls who have told me they fantasise about multiple men at the same time. None of these fantasies involve rape.

People (especially men) confuse sexual fantasy with reality.

I'm a dm and a redeye flight away from helping a brother out

I never truly went down the rabbit hole on this case. I never watched the Ken Burns documentary or the Netflix miniseries. I never read the Armstrong report. I chose my words carefully for a reason. The facts that I claimed were undisputed are, in fact, undisputed. And because of those facts, I think the burden of proof more properly sits with "the CP5 are definitely guilty" crowd than it does with the defenders of the CP5. But I don't claim to be certain of what happened.

Any time that there is a question about a wrongful conviction or a questionable shooting, there are people who eagerly rush in to argue that the defendant (or shooting victim) was no angel. The "no angels" argument doesn't mean much to me one way or the other. Most people who are wrongfully convicted are "no angels." Most people who give false confessions are "no angels." Very often, that's why the the police zeroed in on them in the first place.

No one in the world has ever fantasized about being attacked in the way the Meili was attacked. Her injuries were truly horrific.

Don't mean to blow your mind here, but people can be guilty of one crime and perfectly innocent of a different crime.

Whether or not the CP5 are "good people" is not remotely at issue, and is obviously a cheap deflection away from the fact that they were falsely convicted of rape.


And also, it's certainly true the slut shaming the victim went through was appalling.

If the internet has taught us anything, it's that if you can imagine it, someone out there is doing it. And probably recording it.

Despite the fact that they bragged about it to police after they were arrested? Perhaps American law is different, but in Britain an accomplice to rape can be convicted of rape. Putting it all on Reyes does not appear appropriate.

Rococo has a long history of being very precise with his language in this forum. When he says it's an "undisputed fact" that "The DA stated that the office believed that the confessor likely acted alone.", I expect that's precisely what he means. And that makes far more sense than Rococo implying it's an undisputed fact that Reyes acted alone, as it's quite clear just from this thread alone that it's not undisputed.

If anyone's playing word games here, it's you. But hopefully instead it's just a case of you misinterpreting Rococo's intent.

I don't play word games.
That said, I'm not overtly familiar with Rococo's posting history so yeah maybe I misinterpreted by conflating what he said with what I inferred from him - rightly or wrongly- as actually meaning. The DA believing Reyes most likely acted alone disregards the medical evidence for multiple attackers and the fact that one pf the CP5 confessed from prison to his friend that he sexually assaulted Trisha Meili and another very strongly implied he also took part in actual rape, to a cop, by laughing "I already got mine" simply when the cop asked him why he wasn't out with his girlfriend- even if a new DA moots a subjective opinion. That's what I had issue with, but again conflated what Roc said with what I thought he meant. I do think however the onus is indeed on trolly to provide evidence they were "blatantly railroaded" as a flawed due process doesn't necessarily equate to that. Also, if trolly is making the assertion that "They did not rape that woman"- who he doesn't even bother to name- he needs to address these points, even if it's an undisputed fact that an unreliable source such as Reyes confessed to acting alone and an undisputed fact that the DA who didn't take part in the investigation at the time, expressed a belief which flew in the face of medical evidence.

It's exactly the same in the United States. If you help your friend commit a rape, you are guilty of rape.

I'd say if you find yourself arguing with Rococo, you've probably taken a wrong turn somewhere. Of all the people, of all the places, I don't think I've ever seen that dude be wrong about anything.

Probably how he gets all that money to live on the Upper East Side.

I've seen it in the past

Receipts pls

We had a long protracted back and forth in the Epstein thread once-- only time I ever remember us in a disagreement.

"We" being you and Rococo? Well, if he took the "Hillary didn't make it into a federal prison and personally put a noose around Epstein's neck" side, I probs bet on whatever line he makes there..

be nice to rudoco guys, ramen days ahead for him

This did not happen.

Correct, this should have your first clue that your command of the facts is off.

The discussion was quite a bit different than that.

Dude, if I go in blackface, will you acquit me of all the fraud and forgery?

Probably not a great idea to put it out there, but if the tax people find me, I'm fire hosed anyway. I'll go blackface and peremptory strike every juror till we get Trolly.

There was no way for either of us to be conclusively wrong or right in that debate. You thought the ear photos were highly significant. I did not. I remain highly confident that jeff Epstein is dead, but I obviously don't have first hand knowledge. There is some chance, however remote, that he shows up to the Knicks playoff game tomorrow. If he does, I will be the first to admit that I was wrong. In fact, if that happened, it probably would shift my entire world view more in your direction.

You are correct that we have never gone crazy insulting each other. That isn't really your style (or mine).

Hell yeah, I got your back bro. No legal degree, but I'm sure they don't check for that.

By the way, Luckbox - Roc could chip in here and say "you have only a limited number of peremptory strikes". There are multiple reasons he didn't do this. One, and probably the most probable one, is that he either hasn't seen it or can't be ****ed. I can't think of any more.

They railroaded admitted violent criminals? If so, I'll take more of that, please. They should still be in prison now for the things they admitted years ago, instead of being free and living like they won the lottery. That makes me sick.