The last iteration of the moderation discussion thread was a complete disaster. Numerous attempts to keep it on topic failed, and it became a general discussion thread with almost no moderation related posts at all. And those that were posted were so buried in non-mod posts that it became a huge time drain on the mods to sort through them. Then, when off topic posts were deleted posters complained about that.

This led to the closing of the mod discussion thread, replaced by the post report/pm approach. This has filtered out lots of noise, but has resulted at times in the General Discussion Thread turning into a quasi-mod thread. This is not desirable, but going back to the old mod thread is also not a workable option.

Therefore, I have created this new moderation thread, but with a different purpose and ground rules than previous mod threads. The purpose of this thread is to provide a place for posters to pose questions to the mods about how policies are applied; to bring to the mods attention posts they think are inappropriate and reach the level of requiring mod action; and for mods to communicate to posters things like changes or clarifications to policies, bannings, etc.

Now let me tell you what this thread is NOT a place for. It is not for nonmoderation related posts, even if the discussion originates from a comment in in a mod related post. It is not for posters to post their opinions about other posters or whether a poster should be banned. It is not to rehash past grievances about mod decisions from months or years ago. The focus of this thread will be recent posts that require action now. Or questions about current policies and enforcement.

So basically, this is a thread to ask mods questions. Which means, pretty much that only mods should be answering those questions. If a poster asks why a particular post was deleted or allowed, only a mod can answer that. Everyone else who wants to jump in with their opinion or their mod war story needs to stay out of it. It just increases the noise to signal ratio and does nothing to answer the question.

Everyone needs to understand that this thread has very different rules than the old mod thread and any other thread. Any non-moderation post will be deleted on sight. Not moved to the appropriate thread, just deleted. So don't waste your time crafting a masterpiece post about wars or transgender issues or the presidential election and then post it in this thread. It will be gone. Also, this isnt a thread for general commentary about our mods performance. Posting "browser sucks as a mod" or any such posts that don't actually ask about a policy or request a mod action will be deleted. Everyone is entitled to their opinion about the moderation of this forum. But this thread isnt for complaining about mods. You are free to go to the ATF forum and make your concerns about modding in this forum there.

So with that intro, this thread is open for those who need to bring questions about mod policies or bring inappropriate posts to the mods attention. Again, it is NOT a thread for group discussions about other posters or for other posters to answer questions directed to mods.

We'll see how this goes. If you have what you feel is an open issue raised in the General Discussion Thread, please copy that post or otherwise reintroduce the issue here.

Thanks.

Why, as a mod, do you feel the need to try to control the internet?

I don't.

5th street has been temp banned for his post about all transgender people being mentally ill. The difference between this post leading to a ban while another poster's post was just deleted is that 5th street has an extensive history of warnings and bans on this topic over the last year. Moderation is generally a series of escalated measures, though some posts can elevate the mod action to a higher level as appropriate. So a banning decision is rarely just a result of a single post. Rather the posters entire posting history is taken into consideration.

Is this a perma ban or a one week hiatus?

Somewhere inbetween. Im not going to be specifying exact lengths of temp bans anymore as they can vary greatly for similar posts due to what the posters history is, including mod actions taken in other forums, how recent were other actions taken, etc. So a comparison of post content to punishment can be misleading.

So no one will ever know how long someone's ban is because never in the history of the internet has a group of people researched something pointless just because.

I have no idea what that means. If knowing the length of the ban is that important to someone, they can compare the date I announce the ban to the date the banned undertitle is gone. Or, they can just ask the poster when they return.

After posts as well as pm addressing rickrolls mod issues, he chose to continue to troll after repeated warnings. So he got the suicide by cop he was seeking. But dont worry, he'll be back to life in a week.

Ive reconsidered the stating the length of ban issue. I started that for the reasons I gave. This thread isnt for other posters who are unaware of the totality of a posters history and how that affected the length of a ban to come in and discuss whether a certain ban length was appropriate. And mods arenot going to take the time to explain/justify every decision.

But I appreciate the general level of interest so I will list ban lengths again. So peoples curiosity can be satisfied or so they can mark their calendars and count the days until their loved ones return. But any comments about the length of ban, appropriateness, etc will be deleted. If you want to have a back and forth amongst yourselves about a ban, feel free to do that in the general thread.

just to know how things work around here, are people banned for this specific forum only, or across all of 2+2 ? are DM still open for banned people?

A ban is a sitewide ban. You cant log in or use the pm function.

All of 2+2.

You can read DMs as they are forwarded to your email (or at least mine are) but not reply to them.

People have an interest in what's going on and what's being done, and ban-lengths are a part of that. The idea that any comments on the mod's actions 'will be deleted' is a bit... kind of insecurely authoritarian.

You can discuss the ban all you want in the general thread. Just post them over there so this thread doesnt fill up again with nonsense posts like the one after yours that I deleted.

Victor received a 3 day temp ban for personal insults in the I/P thread.

Is this kind of talk allowed in this forum? Just asking because I don't engage in it myself for now but if it's allowed I might

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The post by brian was inappropriate and has been deleted

I don't understand why my comment to Viktor was deleted. my comment had a fully reasonable connotation. I suppose you might read it as instigation to suicide (???) but it was clearly meant to simply mean "if you just stop being wrong all the times you might appreciate winning like we do"

As I said in the thread, there is no way anyone would take those words to mean changing sides. If that's what you meant, then you really need to spell that out. References to "ending pain" are typically associated with suicide. So on it's own, that comment definitely could and probably was taken that way. Another poster immediately after your post took it the same way and made a comment about it. I deleted that post since he quoted yours.

So in the future please be aware of the most common use of a phrase like that and instead of using an open ended comment like that just articulate what you mean.

Thanks

The post by Luciom was not nearly as bad as the post he was replying to, which yet again accused members of the forum of supporting murder of babies. If I say something similar, you immediately give me a temp ban.

And of course Victor's first post back was so bad you had to tell him not to do that.

Why wasn't that an immediate re-ban?
Can you really not see when someone is incapable of following rules? He poisons every thread he posts in.

Even if your assumption of intent was correct, who is starting the trouble in this exchange?

A - You support murdering babies!
B - Why don't you just kill yourself?

Oh also BTW, I have been told I should kill myself in this forum and nothing was done about that.

I posted in detail about how the issue of whether supporting Israel in the war, given the fact that the bombings are killing babies means that is defacto support of killing babies will be handled from a moderating perspective. So Im not going to repeat it here.

Im not going to discuss or justify individual mod actions in one situation compared to another. If you felt your ban was unjustified based on your comments, you could have appealed it. If you feel now you were inappropriately temp banned you can bring that up in the ATF forum.

This thread isnt for you or any poster to editorialize or critique another poster. So stop that. If you have a particular post you feel requires mods to look at, then report it. We will look at it and decide what, if any action is to be taken. Depending on the situation and time available you may or may not get a personal reply to the report. In most cases the mod will either take action, such as delete a post or issue a warning, but will not send you a pm explaining it. We have days with 15+ reports. It is not feasible to reply to each detailing our decisions.

Please send me the link to the post where you were told to kill yourself.

Thanks

My post here was not made to critique another poster; it was made to critique you (and the general pattern of moderation here not seeming evenhanded).

I just don't get that you clearly see a blatant violation on a first post back from a ban, so much that you feel the need to comment on it, but it doesn't result in an immediate longer ban.

I know you made a long post about the baby murder thing, but it was so long and complicated that I have forgotten anything I may have understood from reading it. I really think that the post Luciom replied to is the worst post I have seen here in a long time. Not only did make baseless horrible allegations but it had no content apart from those allegations. If that kind of thing is allowed I don't know how any other ad hominem attack could be prohibited.

The posts suggesting I kill myself were not very recent and I would have no idea how to find them.
One was from the guy who was eventually banned for talking about idolizing murderers. Another example of someone terrible for the forum who was allowed to poison it far too long.

When you said Victor poisons every thresd he posts in it sounded like a critique of another poster to me.

It's OK that you don't get it. And mods arent going to justify every decision we make just because a poster doesnt agree with it. For example, if I banned everyone who Ive received a pm from another poster telling me I should ban this guy or that, there would be almost no one left.

I guess long is a relative term that depends on ones reading speed and attention span. And complicated is relative to reading comprehension. It's likely you didnt understand it or you wouldnt be asking about it again, so here is the abridged version:

Israel is deliberately dropping bombs on locations they know contain civilians and babies. Those civilians and babies are being killed by the thousands. Therefore, if you support Israel you support deliberately killing babies. It's the same with the genocide supporter issue. Whether or not it is genocide is being debated around the world right now. So if Israel is conducting a genocide, and you support Israel, then you support genocide. Don't like the sound of that? Then make your case as to why that logic is flawed in the topic thread. Dont expect a mod to refute it for you or punish someone for that opinion.

So you just threw that in for dramatic effect, unsure if it even occurred since I returned to modding and it turns out it was done by a poster I permabanned.

In case this post is also too long and complicated for you to follow:

Mods arent going to justify their actions. We get paid (not really) to make those judgement calls in gray areas. If you feel so strongly that a mods actions are so wrong that they warrant review by the higher ups, post that in ATF. If it's just a case of the mod not doing what you would have done if you were a mod, then volunteer to be a mod so you can do it yourself or just accept that each mod makes decisions differently from each other and from how posters would do it.

Wow. Just, wow.