Hello guys, i said i wont post for a while but i have to break that promise for this.

I have to get a hold of shuffle. I talked to him over pm a while ago and I think he is a very good guy. That's of course just an assumption. Shuffle if you read this, I can't send you pms. Your inbox is full for a year now or U just don't accept pms anymore. U gave picks that would have made me incredibly rich so i would like to talk to you about something.

Get in contact pls!

If you try to search for any posts of his you will see that he has apparently asked (and gotten) his whole account deleted, including all posts, so doubt PMs will do anything.

Some flame was deleted from the Ukraine thread.

From the Joe Rogan thread:

That thread is well past its expiry date as the actual Rogan fans have moved on from talking about Rogan, so if you never unlocked it then I doubt anyone would particularly care.

As for the elements you deleted - multiple people expressed some frustration when a poster was intentionally misrepresenting things others said. Mods here are unpaid (no idea why, the owners are hardly running a charity organization), so in the end they can do whatever they like for whatever reason they like and I am fine with whatever choice they make. Still, I would suggest that the mods should be clear on how they will handle posts that are created that essentially intentionally lie about what someone else has said. An example would be the following:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...&postcount=794

where a poster said specifically:

" why did you say up[ thread you don't care about any Ukrainian deaths and they are just fodder for trolling for you?"

Safe to say, that never happened, but that poster has made a habit of using these tactics on several different posters where he manufactures things that they never actually said (many of whom posted frustration at that that behavior that were in the exchanges you deleted from the Rogan thread before locking it).

I am fully aware that I hardly a sympathetic party as my posts do have a bit of snark once in a while, so I am fine taking it as well ( I always appreciate good snark, even when addressed to me directly). I do not appreciate being told that I said specifically that I do not care about Ukranian deaths and they are merely fodder for trolling. That crosses the line, but if mods are fine with those types of posts being done without consequence then let that be known, because others may then adjust their posting to reflect that acceptance. That post is still there, so if it remains then fair enough on posts of that type being permitted.

While I agree with Monty there is little utility left in opening that thread I hope you don't fall for his trolling here.

There are certain people who proudly proclaimed they had zero interest in anything but Twitter hot takes on Rogan and who then tried to lie and label anyone who would spend time providing real factual contents as 'fans' as they then proclaimed proudly ;'they would not read or review any of it'.

They then proclaimed those with the informed view where the one posting fantasy which is pure gaslighting.

If the forum is to provide any new rules from this it should be that on any topic if you proudly proclaim you will not look at nor consider any of the real data available but solely troll those who do, then you should be banned from that thread.

It is one thing if data does not exist and quite another to brag out how uninformed one is and just troll because twitter turned you into a hater of a person.

if any of the regulars here were engaged in a discussion about someone the BFI regulars were hating on and smearing as they were 'left' leaning, and the posters here had real data to counter that BS and I was the one saying I would not view or read it, while maintaining I was right regardless, I would expect the same treatment I am calling for.

Such pure trolling for trolling sake should not be allowed.

If mods want to put a requirement that people can only post on topics in which they pass a specific arbitrary interest and knowledge level, then they can do that, though my personal opinion is that forums like this are created to allow people of all different interest and knowledge levels to express their outlook. If you believe that only "informed" people should be allowed to post on some topics then lay out the ground rules for how that will be determined, though I tend to find that people who proudly believe they are the most informed about everything, and express their "informed" opinions about everything tend to be those that are among the least informed people. Basically, the Cliff Clavin know-it-all know nothing syndrome.

Anyway, my suggestion is simpler, as I am suggesting that when posters literally make up pretty nasty specific statements they attribute to others (without proof) that that is not behavior that should be tolerated, and I gave a specific linked example (because that is how one proves a claim). However if that type of behavior is tolerated then safe to say I will easily be able to adapt to those conditions.

Ok, don't just pick it up in this thread where you left it in the Rogan thread.

Obviously we're not going to do a ton of investigative work to figure out "he said / she said" claims, that would be very time-consuming and a report type that would be weaponized very quickly. We have taken down some posts in the past with particularly grievous claims, but don't expect generalized rules on this one.

I have no power to magically make people informed. If people feel a thread is beneath them in quality, they have the option of posting higher quality content and improving it. Whining about how shitty the other posters are isn't going to improve much.

There is not going to be an "informed" rule on the forum. Being uninformed is allowed, and it would be impossible to moderate fairly anyway. If it leads to content that we do try to moderate, that's another issue.

Well just pay attention tame as Monty has been trying to spread his trolling to the Ukraine thread since he could not get a suitable reply in the Rogan thread.

I will only do the same thing and troll him back, not playing his game and you can bet he will be crying in that thread and likely here that I am not following the trolling rules he thinks are established.

Monty can fight for his right to troll a thread as he admits he has no interest in reading or educating himself and that is fine and he can fight for me to conform to his trolling rules but that won't happen.

I would question why he thinks that is an appropriate place for such trolling but that is kind of the point of the trolling, now isn't it.

Anyway Monty tears incoming so be ready.

Anyone who believes unpaid mods should do extensive investigations is innately silly. Mods are volunteering to help moderate this Gen-X / Boomer dude swamp, and that is crazy enough in and by itself!

No doubt if the poster I linked above took his approach to the next logical level of saying things like "why did you post above that you like little boys" without proof, even if done to "troll back" in his mind, then that would likely be removed correctly. Obviously it is not easy to set specific rules for essentially an unlimited number of scenarios, but I guess I would suggest that someone incorrectly saying another is laughing at the deaths of the civilians of Ukraine and using it as a form of trolling when that is not the case is also past the line. Still, as I said earlier - I accept and will adapt to any choices the mods here make with their forums. That post that was linked is still there, so fair enough, I accept that choice.

Edit to add: I still suggest the Rogan thread stay locked - that thing lost any value long ago. Let it rest in peace.

well said, t_d

We all pretend to be adult around here....... and when it starts down a rabbit hole or goes backnforthnback_again.... it gets tiresome for just about everyone.

QP and monty, you both have MO_s that quite frankly suck. Yet you are still both here. I can't share t_d's thoughts on this but you both keep threads alive and drive traffic. The way you two do that is disgusting to me and FAR from adult at times.... but it does drive traffic so for the health of 2+2, I generally leave it alone. Everyone else is free to engage or not.

As adults, it seems to me that leaving almost all the posts untouched is pretty good moderating. Mostly I find that all of you/us moderate this difficult little side pocket of 2+2 by calling out the BS (and the non-BS) for what it is. My un-favorite is when people use the "trolling" word when critiquing a post. Maybe I should petition the powers-in-charge to censor the word in P&S. (If you think YOU see a troll post.... then read it and move on. No one really cares if YOU feel it is a troll post) I think alot of the "troll" posts are poor attempts at humor. In this pretty contentious forum, having someone lighten the mood occasionally is a needed refresher. Key word occasionally.

Let's try a little harder to adult around here. You/me will NEVER win an argument with QP. You/me will never stop Monty from rolling the derp message out every chance he gets. There are more examples but they should be unnecessary.

kum-ba-YEAHHHHH!

Or you could just not troll and ruin this forum for everyone. But that would only make sense if you were actually interested in conversation and truth.

I will not disagree with much of what Spew said, but the thing I would add is that at least he and the other moderators have no financial ties to this place. Now, I have stated many times that mods here should be paid (with the previous owners and these ones). I do not say that to curry favor with any mods, I know all the mods here groan with my posting character, even the ones I helped make a good amount of money in past years. I just think it is silly that a business run for profit here cannot pay mods that have to herd the flock of cats like the ones here do on a regular basis.

The interesting thing he mentioned is that indeed the active or semi-active (Cuepee posts way more than me these days) posters that create responses do add "life" to what can be politely described as an outdated format of a forum filled with people that get targeted hearing aid and colonoscopy ads. Take a look at the Internet Poker forum (wherever it is tucked away these days) and you will see pretty much every post the people are pretty much behaving like adults, and you can enjoy both new posts that are made every day there on a forum that was once thriving. CNN hates Trump these days, but go back to 2016 and which candidate was on pretty much every one of their shows most nights? Love him or hate him, he was good for ratings. Cha ching.

For what it is worth, I am perfectly fine if the approach is leave all posts untouched aside from stuff like real life threats or outright racism (with proof of it). Certainly would make your guys jobs easier, so perhaps pitch for it with the new owners and see what they say.

It drives traffic away from here. I open a thread and see 50 consecutive posts between two posters arguing back and forth and I grandpa Simpson walk in and out

That was either the best or worst troll post I've ever read.

It needed a better sign-off catchphrase.

I would like a little input on a thought I have had the past two or so hours.

The P&S forum has had a doubling of activity over the past week, almost entirely viewing the (1) Russia/Ukraine thread.....I assume looking for the latest news. We also have had a Ukrainian national post a thread (2) SOS Ukraine Is On Fire that started as a plea for funds.

After the latest tangent involving Flat Earth,,,,,,,, I think we still need TWO threads.

One SOS Ukraine Is On Fire - LATEST NEWS

One Russia/Ukraine COMMENTARY

I am still in favor of keeping LATEST NEWS as a Sticky. It will contain well, golly,,,, just the facts ma'am. Commentary will be deleted (easier for modding and MUCH easier for our visitors to find the latest news). There will of course be cross posting and is probably encouraged so that commentary will have something to talk about beside FlatEarth and the Rolling T-14s.

Thoughts??

I think it's hard to separate news from commentary on a discussion forum. Is the news thread literally just links to articles and tweets and whatnot, and no discussion of any of it? Surely there are other sites more suited for that sort of thing than a discussion forum?

Seems a perfect time to go for it and create that thread concept however you like and then if you can see the breakdown of clicks it will help give an idea how a news only (however you set the rules) thread does vs a commentary thread in terms of activity. Sticky it to give it some extra help if needed.

Or, keep the current thread as is but periodically copy all the "straight news" posts (unless debunked) to the news thread/sticky? Or would that be a lot of work? Maybe we can help by marking the news posts somehow so a mod can select them more easily?

I closed the transgender thread as nothing was getting resolved.

That does not mean that we can open up that same topic in this thread.

edit: I did not join that thread until it was at an impasse. I tried to break the topic down into bite size pieces of logic but was not successful. Therefore it seems the best action was to essentially say:

3200+ posts and we have come to the end of discussion. Nothing new has been added (for weeks/months?). Time to move on.

If you like this idea but it is too much work, I will volunteer to do it if you give me whatever rights I'd need and tell me what I need to do.

I strongly disagree with closing the trans thread. King Spew, while I agree with Bobo and seemingly you as well that Cuepee is unwilling to have an actual discussion, I don’t think the thread should be closed for everyone because of his intransigence. Trans issues aren’t going away as part of our political discussion, and I think we shouldn’t exclude that from the forum just because it sends Cuepee off the deep end. While he does dominate the conservation, there is a steady stream of people who want to chime in on trans issues and I think we should keep the thread open for that.

I don’t think this is true. We’ve regularly updated the thread when big trans issues in politics come up, for instance the recent series of bans from gop states on school sports or most egregiously the recent sweeping laws in Texas that put pressure to be reporting parents and teachers of trans kids.

These types of things should have a place on this forum, regardless of Cuepee.