Just because one group of people lived under certain situations doesn’t really mean anything.

I’ve heard people that live in the islands and tropical regions also tend to live longer so it looks like eskimos might have been screwed on two fronts.

I would think colder climate makes you live longer sometimes because it may slow the blood flow as long as your body doesn’t constantly have to be working harder.

It would be interesting to know the optimal temperature? Could the optimal temperature also change by person?

No I’ve never been to Alaska or other artic regions. I bet they could farm in greenhouses. But ya probably not GTO farming conditions.

One of the biggest actual problems with veganism is getting a proper diversity in vegetation. Often times the earth is limited by altitude or pressure or soil for growing.

There are realistic problems. Getting non GMO fruits and vegetables out of season is a problem.

There are some wild life concerns that are real. That doesn’t mean we just throw it all away and go back to old customs. We find a way. It’s really the future. The masses seem to be fighting it.

Theres also the massai. Isn't it weird how a group of herbivores can live on meat only?

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My point was: humans are obviously omnivores.

LOL at such haphazard dismissal of simply 'Eskimos can change their culture' as if they can just flip the switch and all become vegetarian or vegan.

Would you say the same for indigenous tribes in the Amazon and elsewhere that have very little to no contact with modern civilization?

And do you see these groups/societies as lacking morals or wrong or bad people if they continue to kill and eat animals now?

rjr777 you are clearly beyond any reasonable debate. You are zealot who will push a position devoid of logic and based solely on emotion. Your emotion.

Eskimo's, indigenous tribes, they all just need to stop living the lives they do and build greenhouses and become vegen. Why? Because humans have choices and that means everyone must make the choice you do.

Your position is child like.

The irony is dripping on this one.. it’s so sophomoric to result to insults when your position is devoid of any reason and you become an emote.. children use the side of their brain for emotion which is why they result to name calling and hitting. It’s really just a function of not knowing any better. We must teach the children.

There you go again w the circular reasoning..

Customs were done thus they should continue being done.. ya eskimos have to give up animals too sorry eskimos.

Strawmanning again does not help you.

I have not made the argument that Eskimo's, Indigenous in the Brazilian rainforest, etc eat meat due to custom only.

In your infantile reasoning you think you can merely wave your hands and say 'they just need to change their customs and stop eating meat. They should add hydroponic greenhouses to the arctic and infrastructure to the deep rainforest. Simple as that'.

You have tribes in the deep amazon with no contact with modern society, no access to services like roads or electricity and they require meat to subsist as a crucial part of their diet.

But you, just wave your hands, call them immoral and say they just need to change their culture and stop eating meat.

I did all raw with no processed foods (sugar, grains, frozen, etc). Felt the best ever, for me, but most people shouldn't do it because most will not take the time to learn how to do very restrictive diets properly. I do, and even I had enough sense to check my ego and have panels drawn every month for the first 3 months, and then every 3 months thereafter.

Eventually, mostly due to my high-caloric needs from running and food becoming a 24/7 obligation, I started incorporating cooked back into my diet. My first cooked meal was a few pounds of spinach with a shitload of steaming hot vegetables. Damn, that tasted really good... I can't explain how good, but I do remember the ineffable experience vividly.

The metabolic changes were palpable, but the law of diminishing returns were more apparent, and 100% raw was just not that much better than cooked, for me, so I started slowing adding in grains and stuff, and eventually discovered that, for me, dairy was a brick (was ovo-lacto vegetarian for like 30 years prior) even though I had no intolerance issues with dairy.

Thanks for the share. I always find it interesting to hear from people who have experience.

It must have been harder to be a vegetarian before the last couple of years.

I do think raw is catching on a little as is evidence by the amount of raw juice bars popping up in my town.

Lol at your attempt to try and back me in a corner and be like ha! Not everyone can go vegan...

Is your purpose here to win an argument?

Just because there are cultures that have meat heavily engrained in their every day life and customs doesn’t mean my absolute position of not killing animals for any reason is wrong.

My nick name was “deli meats” and I loved eating animal products for 30plus years. I was able to stop eating any animal products in an instant. I had a conversation with my friend (who wasn’t even vegan) and it was my red pill moment when I realized I never had to be complicit in the process again. I changed in a literal instant.

You’re using these examples of all these tribes is meaningless.... meat and dairy was just as much a part of my lifestyle 3.5 years ago. It was part of every meal. I was able to change in an instant so people can change.

Nice.

Agreed, only a small percent of the populace would be able to go Raw and maintain nutritional balance. How much did you have to supplement?

In truth a good percent of people who go vegan do not do so healthily as they do not focus on the supplementation needs and tend to eat a lot of prepared, easy but junky foods.

What is the main reason for going Raw as opposed to cooked? Is it a belief that there is some nutritional destruction in the cooking process? How much supplementing do you need to do on a riot diet?

I think people who don't take the time to learn about what they eat is a problem for every diet. A lot of people never think about which nutrients they get with the food they eat.

I did never thought about what I was eating bevor becoming vegetarian and after a while vegan, too. When I got vegetarian everyone around me lost their **** about how I want to get all essential nutrients so I started my research. Until today I'm astonished how much you can damage your body with eating the wrong stuff.

I often say that any diet, 'ANY', that makes people think about what they eat is better than 90% of what most people eat who never put any thought to balance or nutrition.

The one exception is ethical Veganism.

I am not trying to pick on ethical veganism, and certainly many ethical vegans understand the nutritional challenges and do it right. But a large percent of ethical vegans base their diet on what they DO NOT eat, as opposed to what they eat.

This has lead, to the first time in the modern era in the First World, to increases in infant malnutrition and death.

Malnutrition Case Stirs Debate About Vegan Diets for Babies

There are also lots of over weight vegans who, again are choosing foods, often laden with sugars and other poor nutrition choices simply because they are not meat.

So people do need to take the time to learn what they eat, especially vegans as the diet itself is not complete and REQUIRES supplementation to balance it out.

The problem is you’re so stuck on it being a “diet”... veganism isn’t a diet. It’s a lifestyle choice that transcends food and says I’m never going to partake in use of animals as commodities again. There is no need so I can take an absolute stance.

I don’t think you understand on a fundamental level. The fact you keep referring to it as a diet is evidence that you are blind to what I’m saying.

I am morally physically spiritually opposed to the mistreatment and USE of animals and sentient beings. I’m done with it. Time to wake up everyone else too.

Also..
Whole food plant based is the diet.. there needs to be clarification that just because someone is WFPB doesn’t mean they are a vegan and similarly vegetarians aren’t vegan specifically because they’re still taking part in the abuse of cows and the disgusting dairy industry.

I literally have 0 respect for vegetarians because it’s a “tell” they really don’t get it.

In many ways the dairy industry is worse than the meat industry.

I went ovo-lacto vegetarian in the 80's. I found it pretty easy to do. The social aspects of it were more difficult than finding enough convenient food sources as a vegetarian, but restaurants were problematic, as things like gluten, dairy, etc., avoidances are pretty common today so the staff knows their plates better today and are more accommodating.

Pretty much supplemented with DHA/EPA, B12, and D3.

Vegans can get away with eating **** foods for a while. An adult will have enough stores of B12 in the liver to sustain themselves (a few years) for longer than the average person usually remains vegan, and many foods are fortified.

Yeah, cooking reduces phytochemicals, with the exception of carotenoids, which are increased by cooking. That being said, juicing carrots will release even more carotenoids than cooking carrots, for example, so a raw fooder should juice carrots rather than eat raw carrots. On the other hand, reducing phytic acid is good, so cooking is beneficial there, but a raw fooder would want to eat moderate amounts of foods high in phytic acid. Balance is key.

For sure, that's why even many non-vegan foods are fortified. You can't count on anyone eating a balanced diet.

For plant-based nutrition, I think Brenda Davis is good. A lot of raw fooders or vegan gurus try to suggest that B12 doesn't need to be supped, but she comes at it unbiased and looks at their studies and is logical about it. She makes a good point: a lot of vegans or raw fooders want to claim no supps are necessary to prove that the diet holds up on its own, but if people are getting sick from a B12 deficiency, then you're indirectly substantiating the merits of a meat diet.

Any specific people you read/recommend?

I've always been mystified as to why going vegan turns someone into a monumental *******.

It’s one of those things where I once was not a vegan. I would have made fun of someone for being vegan and laughed at them like a circus clown. I can’t blame or judge your for that because you literally don’t know any better. I once was you.

Then I realized I was wrong and changed my ways. It’s not just about allowing people to have free choices it’s the fact that there is a victim involved. It’s a borderline emergency when people are willing to partake and be complicit in the process of harming animals and using animals as some sort of commodity.

Vegan is BOTH a diet for many and a moral lifestyle choice for others. Both is true and that you do not know this, is shocking.

I expect you will come back and say that you hold the singular definition for what a vegan is and only you can define it.

What I said absolutely applies to the 'diet' aspect of veganism and is correct.

And i reject the idea that you (or any ethical vegan) truly gives a crap about animals. What you care about is solely man's DIRECT involvement in the process. You have zero concern about mass animal suffering and death by man's indirect involvement (settlement displacement, farming vegetables, etc) and would gladly turn a blind eye to it and see thousands of animals die that way, as long as you do not have to see a single animal killed by mans hands.

This is a fair assessment I can get on board with most of this..

However it feels like propaganda when people don’t concede at a minimum that all diets have some sort of nutrient deficiencies wether it be B12 iron vitamin D etc.. it’s hard for any person to get a well balanced diet and diversified diet and not over eat certain foods and under eat certain foods.

I think it’s unfair to target vegans when most vegans are healthier than the average person , live longer on average, and live overall better healthier lifestyles.

While meat and dairy eaters tend to be more sick, have more heart disease, and die at younger ages.

Incorrect, there is one true definition. I didn’t make it up. It’s actually a hotly debated topics amongst vegans because many vegans say it isn’t inclusive and people should accept that vegans can be vegans for all sorts of reason. But
I tend to agree if someone say doesn’t eat meat but then buys leather belts or fur that would be an example of not truly being vegan and hence why it’s not just a diet.

So we must kill animals to save animals? That makes about as much sense as your entire stance