We die off in a single generation without sex or reproduction...

We don’t die if everyone went vegan/vegetarian

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Our bodies aren’t designed to eat meat. That’s why rotted meat lines your intestines. A long digestive track is meant for getting nutrients out of food. Lions and other carnivores have a short digestive track to expel the meat as fast as possible.

There’s also the FACT we have flat dull flat teeth meant for grinding. Your teeth simply could never shred raw meat like a lion could. You also have fingers as opposed to claws so pretty much every part of the human anatomy is telling us that we’re natural plant eaters like a horse giraffe gorilla etc and not a lion tiger etc

We're omnivores.

Also you're arguing from the perspective of the modern world where you are correct. We can survive on meat substitutes because we have access to technology. And we can reproduce a-sexually too.

As I said, good luck selling that.

People like meat and sex because we're designed to. Maybe in a couple hundred generations that won't be the case, but for now it really is.

Are we designed to like meat?

When was the last time you saw a cow and had your mouth water?

When was the last time you saw a strawberry and had your mouth water?

When was the last time you ate a raw piece of meat with no vegan seasoning on it?

Reducing meat and dairy intake is a good idea for most adults for all the usual reasons. It tends to decrease your overall calorie consumption, which helps you control weight. It almost inevitably reduces the percentage of calories that you get from saturated fats, which lowers your risk of heart disease.

Meat and dairy do not cause your blood to be more acidic. There is no scientific evidence behind that claim, which I assume is your starting premise.

I like sushi and rare steak.

My mouth watering when I look at a cow would be like my mouth watering when I see a strawberry plant with no fruit. Bad comparison.

Sometimes my mouth waters when I see a fine lady too.

Farmers are like taxi drivers clinging to medieval economic notions and demanding government support for their old fashioned ways.

So if my mouth waters when I see a fine lady too then am I allowed to just rape her?

Bc basically you’re justifying murdering animals because that’s your preference?

Can we justify crimes because it’s our preference? By your logic we can

Again, this is a bunch of pseudoscientific bullshit. Meat passes through your digestive tract like any other food. Your intestines are not lined with rotted meat.

Also, if you believe that humans have teeth that are very similar to grazing animals like horses, then you haven't ever looked in a horse's mouth. Now it's true that we don't have teeth like a lion either. And there's a reason for that. Human beings have never relied on their teeth to hold and kill prey animals.

As RFlush pointed out, in terms of physiology, human beings are omnivores. Human beings could shift to a largely plant based diet if we chose to do so. But that's because of technological progress. It isn't because of physiology. Human teeth are similar to the teeth of other closely related omnivores like chimpanzees.

I always amazed at how important it is for some people to feel like they have special knowledge that is contrary to conventional wisdom. If you want to eat a healthy diet, by all means, do so. If you want to proselytize to others about healthy eating, God bless. But why is it necessary to claim that your views are correct because you understand something that most doctors do not understand? It's bizarre. You don't have to strain to find legitimate reasons for eating a plant-based diet. You don't have to resort to pseudoscience to justify your behavior.

You should consult a colonics doctor because you’re flat out wrong. We will have to agree to disagree until you do so.

I get the pro meat crowd clinging to it because of the brainwashing and propaganda that’s been hurled at them since birth....

I don’t get why people still think subsidies are a good idea at all... maybe one of the pro meat guys could explain why free market capitalism shouldn’t exist

It’s just like poker people need to adapt or fall behind...

It’s gonna be a rude awakening when the consumption of animal products is gone by 2040

I am heavily libertarian and think people should have the freedom to choose what they do and don’t do unless it breaks the law like murder.

You are free to do what you please.. but I won’t sit idle when you partake in the needless (that’s what it is since we established we don’t need meat) murder of animals.

Especially when the government is pushing subsidies using my money to give people foods that may or may not make them sick in the long run.

I have no idea what you are talking about. No one is asking you to remain idle while I do anything. As I said, I have no objection to people eating less meat. I have no objection to people proselytizing to me or the world at large about the need for humans to eat less meat. I have no objection to government policies that induce less meat eating. All these things are probably good ideas. And I have no objection to moral arguments in favor of vegetarianism. In fact, the moral argument is fairly compelling.

I do object, however, to supporting beliefs with pseudoscience. And I have no idea why you believe it is necessary to rely on pseudoscience. As I mentioned, there are plenty of legitimate arguments that support your ultimate conclusions.

I'm guessing that it is an ego stroke for you to believe that you know more than most doctors. But that's just a guess.

So the pseudoscience and the “real science” are saying the same thing and arrive at the same result eat less/no meat?

So what’s the problem?

Time to go vegan rococo

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As far as knowing more than doctors.. maybe I do know more and maybe I’m not in bed with big pharma so maybe just maybe you should listen to me and not those that have a conflict on interest? I have no agenda except maybe just helping people eat healthier.

If you wanted to say I’m projecting and need to eat healthier myself I would say that’s a fair criticism. I most certainly need to cut out grains and sugars from my diet. I’m not perfect.

My OP is that we shouldn’t be forced to use our money to possibly make food that isn’t good for us cheaper using a socialist program. Do you at least agree with this?

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I’m guessing you just don’t like the acidic claim for why certain foods are bad. It doesn’t just stop at meat and dairy, it’s sugars and grains that also break down acidic.

I guess you call that pseudoscience

But in my life since going vegan for 3.5 years I don’t get sick anymore. I used to get 2-4 sinus infections per year and now I don’t get any.

So this might be anecdotal proof but I’ve literally lived and seen what not eating animal products does to you. It’s almost as though I feel a cold coming on and it magically disappears. You’re right it’s like pseudoscience I can’t explain why I don’t get sick.

I’ve looked up reasons and there is an ongoing debate in the medical community over alkaline-acidic diets and how high alkaline foods like beets are the best antioxidants because you guessed it they’re the highest on the ph scale and most alkaline.

Why have you dismissed alkalinity and acidity as pseudoscience?

Have you ever owned a fish tank? You need to keep water levels at a certain ph for fish to thrive. Why wouldn’t our bodies similarly thrive under certain conditions?

https://www.heritage.org/agriculture...farm-subsidies

I'm a meat and potatoes type of guy; I love meat!
But I sort of agree with op on subsidies. They are a scam. Big corporations run the American agriculture industry. And they are the main beneficiaries of most subsidies.

Glad you agree mostly on subsidies..

Sad you can’t see the meat and dairy lobbies as being behind it and the implications

This has nothing to do with it. I'm not rejecting your contention that certain foods make your blood acidic because it might lead to the conclusion that I should avoid some foods that I enjoy. My eating habits aren't that bad. And in any case, I certainly haven't spent any time trying to catalogue exactly which foods you believe alter the ph level of my blood.


Because there is absolutely no scientific evidence to support the conclusion that eating habits alter the ph level of blood? What is your support for this contention? The onus of proof is on the person making the extraordinary claim, not on the person questioning the extraordinary claim.

LOL at the fish tank comparison. You are comparing respiration with digestion.

I haven't followed up on exactly which particular lobbies are involved.
If I had to take a guess, I'd say they are all the same. It doesn't matter if it's meat or dairy industries or potatoe or soybean farmers. I'm guessing the common thread is that the bigger they are, the more lobbying influence they have in Washington.
You brought up a very good point. Lobbying is a corrupt system, taken advantage of by the rich and powerful, by all industries.
As far as your views on the meat and dairy foods being unhealthy, I think you would have to treat that as a different subject.

Really?

Which argument is more compelling to you?

1) We should reduce carbon emissions because carbon emissions contribute to global warming.

2) We should reduce carbon emissions because carbon emissions cause nearsightedness.

Both arguments lead to the same conclusion, but the first argument is backed up by science. The second argument is just some bullshit I made up. If you make the first argument, people listen to you. If you make the second argument, people think you are crazy.

Well thought out response..

However the corporatocracy does not have your or my best interest when it comes to turning a profit.

Do you remember the milk does a body good campaigns? It’s blatant propaganda for the dairy lobby. You’re literally not supposed to drink the excrements of another animal. But it’s so normalized that I sound crazy for saying that.

I actually never even realized the corruption and the way things operate until recently... I didn’t realize the Department of agriculture has a board of 7 men who are likely bought and paid for that vote on how much subsidies are handed out with my tax payer money.

Why do these lobbies have to push so hard to convince us that meat and dairy are good for us?

Can we let the dissenting side speak up for once?

Straw man argument... non sequtor you pick...

Why are some people in this forum so convinced that they know science and anything else is pseudoscience.

There are plenty of drs that are vegan and will support my claims of acidity...

You can find plenty of drs who agree with you...

This is a current debate in the medical field whether you think it’s pseudoscience or not.

I’ve read various reports stating that cancer needs an acidic environment to thrive.. So it’s inconclusive at best to call it pseudoscience.

Part of the problem is the peer review amongst doctors. It’s much easier for me to say these things facing no recourse (maybe a temp ban lol). But doctors have to face being shunned and outcast and lose their business.

And ya I’m crazy I’m vegan... I don’t think we should use animal products, drink cow puss, eat chickens menstrual cycle, and eat flesh from a pig which has the sentience off a 2yo. Ya call me crazy.

I don't agree on your take on milk at all. Although I have to admit I haven't done much study on it. All I do know is that lactose tolerance and intolerance have played a role in our evolutionary development. Just look at the Maasai of East Africa. There diet consists almost entirely of Cow milk. And they are very healthy. So has meat, in a positive sense, according to some scientific studies I'm aware of.
As we develop as a society, I guess it's only natural that our eating habits change.

I'm a firm believer that just about anything in moderation is good for you.
Whereas, excess consumption is usually the opposite.
Try a glass of wine each night. You'll start noticing the benefits. Just don't drink the whole bottle!

That’s very wise of you to admit you haven’t studied it much.. sign of a very intelligent person to admit they don’t know something.

Inversely the height of ignorance is to dismiss something without looking into it..

As far as moderation goes I agree in fact the definition of virtue is the mean between excess and deficiency which is moderation so truth or virtue is moderation.

As far as dairy goes we will have to agree to disagree. I believe over 90% of tracked people in studies said they had some form of intolerance. But the reality is everyone has stomach issues when they eat lactose so pretty much 100% of people are lactose intolerant. Duh we’re not supposed to drink cow excrement!

As far as alcohol goes.. it’s one of those things that breaks down acidic and is toxic for your body. I’ll pass on it.

Point me to any study that supports the conclusion that diet affects the acidity of your blood. Keep in mind that this should be the easiest thing in the world to test and prove if it is correct.

And again, I'm not saying that your behavior is crazy. I'm saying that the reasons you are offering for your behavior are crazy. There are a million better reasons to avoid meat and dairy than the one you are pushing.

https://newscenter.sdsu.edu/sdsu_new...aspx?sid=78069

This Dr says there are foods that break down acidic and talks about it.