If you find yourself defending anyone who has ruled any institution for more than thirty years you have failed life 101.

its all relative. its better to be poor in Cuba than poor in the USA or really most countries. and theres a lot of poor ppl in USA and throughout the world.

Isn't that what communism is supposed to resolve?

You would take Cuba over any other Latin American country if you had to live in it. f hypocrates. Especially as a woman.

10 murdered women a day in Mexico alone.
True number is way higher. Solved cases 0.

And his stupid oath.

Looks like you dont have any solution for this puzzle mate.

Which country in South America would you rather pick?

Costa Rica, Uruguay, Panama, Brazil.... there are plenty.

And it's a completely idiotic question. I'd rather live in Saudi Arabia for 10 years than plenty of places in the Middle East or Latin America. That doesn't mean the government there isn't god awful.

Why are there still poor people in Cuba after sixty years of Communism?

This is true. If you are poor in Cuba then you are just like everyone else, so you wouldn't feel bad about it. But if you are poor in the US when surrounded by opportunity and others being successful, I can imagine that would be pretty depressing and make one feel like an angry loser.

Costa Rica, good luck as a woman! Or as a westerner, the likelihood of harm happening to you is great. I'm not talking about you visiting as a tourist, where you are just stuck in your resort or tourist area. I'm talking about living there. It's a major hub for the cartels to traffic drugs. It's also a place where many Latins gets stuck on their journey to freedom and then have to resort to crime due to poverty.

"Is Costa Rica safe for women travelers?
Women, particularly those traveling alone, must exercise a high degree of caution in Costa Rica as women visitors have been the victims of sexual assault and murder in recent years and the overall sexual assault rate has increased."

"Solo female travelers should strongly consider staying in places where they can meet other travelers, particularly if planning to go on hikes, stay out late or visit remote place"
https://www.worldnomads.com/travel-s...0out%20of%2012.


You see, you and me have very different criteria when considering moving to a country. I wouldnt even want to set foot into Saudi Arabia given all the abuse that is happening there to women, people in gerneral and foreigners. (Thier slave market etc) but if you are ok with it, as many people are btw, as long as they live the good life, same goes for Dubai btw.
Not to mention other things that i don't agree with. I.e the genocide in jemen. If that all doesn't bother it's fine to live in S.A. is rather live in Cuba to tell you the truth.

Good luck in the other countries you listed, safety and crime doesn't seem to be the no1 concern of yours.

If you are poor in Cuba you get education and health care and a worthwhile job. If you are poor in USA you get jail and abuse and exploitation.

This is not the black and white answer you might think should apply. And sadly some who only see things in black and white will assume this is a pro Castro or Pro Communism argument but the fact is that you cannot simply say 'communism' is the reason why Cuba is doing so bad when a more relevant factor is the US view Cuba (communist regime) did not align with their interests and thus did everything in their power to make sure they would not be successful.

That does not mean they would have been successful, even with US alignment and support. They could have been a Bautista type regime where only the despot leader (Castro) does well and the citizens were in more or less the same spot as they are now under and authoritarian regime of another name (not called communism) that the US would have gladly propped up.

But perhaps (but less likely imo) if Castro did tie himself to US interests and implemented a system identical to his version of communism but without the name and instead took more of a China approach (trying to build the middle class and entire country to maximize their long term self interest) it is theoretically possible that Cuba could have been a great success.

I know there are a lot of IF's there but proximity to the US and a supportive relationship with them, coupled with a Chinese Communism like 'investment in the Middle class' could certainly have the potential to build a superior economy and perhaps as close to communist nirvana as the planet might ever see.

You seem to be pro USA, but ignorant to the fact that it was the US that installed (backed and trained) paramilitia in Nicaragua, Panama, Chile, Bolivia, etc. to enforce their interests, then take off with the profits and then, abandon ship, which always resulted in a corrupt gov and the cartels taking over and terrorizing the locals.

You know that the US did this with the Taliban, and the same thing they did in S. America. So yes this was the only way out for cuba.

So yes I'd take Cuba, for the reason that it has not been entirely f with by the West. And your countries given I'd only have a slight chance of survival, I'd make a huge turn around them. Or to throw up when I hear what they are doing.

S.A. has an active slave market ffs. Human sex and slave trafficking from Africa and Asia. Yes, people suffer there and yes people don't know a f about it or don't seem to care.

I've actually been to all the places I listed with either my wife, kids or both. They were all places I could imagine living and working. Obviously I would only consider the big cities but there are plenty of rural areas in the US I couldn't imagine living or working either. I'm not an expert in the area or anything, but you don't seem to know anything about what life in them is like. I've never been to Cuba and I'm not saying it is North Korea, but it's definitely not on the top of my list on places to live and work in Latin America.

i've spent a fair amount of time in Cuba over the years. Mostly in Holguín, which is the 4th biggest city but not a tourist haven. You really can and do mix with the locals there.

I proposed to my (now ex) wife there in the midst of a neighbourhood, New Years block party we were invited to by locals. The proposal (very visible as I did it on a stage area in the midst of the block party in front of maybe 400 people) was just extra reason for the locals to extend their hands to us and make us feel even more welcome.

It is one of the most memorable experiences of my life and my ex says the same.

it is true that they are amongst the generally happiest and most content people you will hang out with.

The biggest issue you see amongst the people generally is that the tourism industry creates some great disparities due to tips. The value of getting paid US dollars as tips meant that many trained 'doctors', 'engineers' opted to try and get jobs in resorts or drive taxi's where they could make a lot more that way. It really distorted the labour market.

Cuba tried to deal with that a couple ways but both failed. At one point they tried to ban tipping with a mild threat that tourists tipping could be charged or arrested. Ouch, they learned quick that those US dollars coming in to the economy where really vital for the economy so they stopped discouraging tipping. Second they passed a law that all tips received had to be submitted to the gov't for more fair and equitable redistribution amongst all citizens (after gov't officials combed a few points off first) but of course the tourism workers just took that money even further unground and it was not pursued.

Where I would advise someone to live, if they had to choose between Brazil, Costa Rica, Panama, etc would depend on the person and their ambitions.

You could simply plop anyone in to Cuba and I think they would be instantly embraced by the locals and be able to live amongst them at that low level. So if they did not have ambitions to escape that life and achieve more it would be an ok place to live. If you could carry any modest wealth with you (middleclass US pension or Retirement funds), you could live very well anywhere on the island.

if you have bigger ambitions than best to choose any of the S.America countries. Somewhere like Equador now. And again with any modest US passive income (pension, etc) you could live well but you would not generally be as safe and potentially welcomed everywhere. You need to pick your spots more.

Cuba and Barbados, in my experience are two of the safest 'anywhere' islands. Safer than Canada and especially the US for a wanderlust who does not pay attention to surroundings and might end up on the wrong side of the tracks while seeking out interactions with locals.

I have tried to live in Mexico in 2015 and I'm telling you it's a circus, a bad joke of a country. You have to love it but feel bad for them. It's getting worse every year. It used to be good life in Mexico, not anymore. People get killed and abducted left and right. The gov=is the cartel or profits from it up to the gov and the highest levels.

Since the Mexicans are running the show now of drug and human trafficking with brute force, the other Latin countries are increasing the stakes too. They just have to. That's why you see crime and murder rates go up to record numbers every year. Im assumimg you were there in more peaceful times. It's probably not as nice as it used to be.

I'm not interested in living in gated communities and armed to the teeth, but im following whats happening. It really is a country without any law and justice. I 've not been to any of the countries you listed, only a few others in L. america. Saudi Arabia I've only seen the airports, which are magnificent. Without knowing how they made the money id be impressed. The times of peace in Latin America are long over imo. And you might want to look at some data now. As in mexico, the cartels are running it in all the counties you have listed.
You dont want to get in trouble there.

You were hustling the 10/20 table in '59 when the tanks rolled in, right, OG?

I was in all those places in 2017. And again, would definitely take them all over Cuba. You're just being crazy if you think most people would prefer living under an oppressive regime in Cuba over anywhere in Latin America.

Me grinding it out with young Castro in mid 50's' just before he hit and ran our table saying had a "couple" things he needed to do.

Again I think the key is here is what stage of life and what ambitions does the person have.

If it is a person in their earning years who still has ambition then sure. You get more chance at upside in S.America along with more risk and more limited mobility.

If you are more a hippy type or retired with a fixed income I think many/most would pick Cuba. Safety, community, healthcare leading for that.

Most 'guest' residence in Cuba would not find it oppressive at all. It is only if you want/need to make a good income there you would.

Then it's just a personal opinion.

I know there are thousands of expats in Mexico for instance, and they will all tell you how wonderful and safe it is, IF you are careful. The f truth is this:

"Half of all American expats anywhere in the world are murdered in mexico"

https://pat-the-expat.com/2021/03/03...afe-in-mexico/

So I can only assume what goes for the other Latin American countries. Sure if you are lucky your stay will be problem free. If you run into problems though, it might be really bad.

So yes, if I had a family and I had to move to l. America id probably pick Cuba. Just for safety reasons.
They say Chile is safe too but what am doing in Chile? Cuba is pretty close to the Us. Cuba has rich people too, that buy property and have wealth btw. Mostly these are ex Cubans. They rent out airbnbs etc. An apartment in Havana is not a bargain.

And again, what's oppressive? They are free to travel since 2013. The other govs are corrupt too, so it's really a matter of preference imo. The options are pest or cholera.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Cuba

I mean are you really not familiar with what international human rights organizations say about freedom of expression etc in Cuba?

And I noticed you completely flip flopped from pretending like Cuba vs the rest of Latin America is some no brainer for 99% of people like like North vs South Korea to "it's personal preference". Nobody doubts tankies etc would prefer Cuba. A very small minority fled the US for the USSR.

https://reliefweb.int/report/puerto-...ghts-violation

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huma..._in_Costa_Rica

We can do this all night. They all suck.

Costa Rica seems better there on the human rights. But they have more crime. It's all a give or take.

www.osac.gov
Costa Rica 2020 Crime & Safety Report
11 Jun 2020 — Costa Rica has experienced a steady year-over-year decrease from its 2017 record high murder rate of 12.1 per 100,000 people

Cuba?

"4.6 per 100,000 people
According to the U.N., the murder rate is 4.6 per 100,000 people, which is one of the lowest in the Caribbean and South America. We do know that Cuba has relatively few guns, and violent crime is fairly uncommon. Be mindful of Cuban laws and regulations during your stay."
https://www.anywhere.com › cri...
Cuba Travel Guide Crime & Safety - Anywhere Travel

Lol dude, no offense but if it's news to you that Cuba is always on watch lists for human rights violations maybe this isn't a conversation you are knowledgeable enough to participate in.

We'll let this thread chill for a bit.