It's a shame the US cut out Castro when he wouldn't play the game and keep the money flowing.

It would be interesting to see how the communist social experiment would have worked without the trade restrictions the US imposed and the open invitation to the soviets they orchestrated.

For a country so paranoid about the commies we sure did our best to give the Russians an ally on our doorstep. It makes you wonder how bright some of these guys really are.

Castro was bad...blah, blah. I know.

So was Bush the war criminal. And the Clintons. Hell, Trump may end up being worse than Castro. He has an outside chance of being installed president for life.

Then we'll see what Americans are really made of.

I mean, they did try those men. the Western media called it a "show" trial but like ofc they did. so we have established that there were indeed trials.

so I dunno what sort of context you are pulling that from. it could be during the revolution itself when you know who was executed? rebels who got way out of line. obv they didnt execute many Batistatas considering they had trials later.

or maybe Che expressed that opinion but never put it in place. after all, he was just one man and not the overall leader. he also left Cuba pretty quick.

https://www.nytimes.com/1959/01/23/a...-of-18000.html

AIDES OPENS IN STADIUM; Crowd of 18,000 Jeers at First 3 Officers Facing Possible Execution LONG CRIME LIST READ Castro Vows Prohibition of Capital Punishment After Courts-Martial End CUBAN SHOW TRIAL OPENS IN STADIUM

btw, how many Nazis and Japanese were exectuted? actually proly best not to answer that. the USA and Britain hired those mofos.

its questionable if Castro was a Communist and would have imposed such a system if the Americans had somewhat acknowledged and traded with him.

dont believe me? how about the CIA...Allen Dulles himself said they did not think he was a Marxist.
def dumb as you said.

https://www.nytimes.com/1982/03/28/w...d-in-1959.html

lol

Well, the land was going to be carved up. But yeah, they would have been happy to keep trading with the US and prosper.

But you can't lose all that free money can you ? Best to let the Russians take over.

All that smoking and drinking in the 50's slowed the Yankees down. lol

Now we are talking, both were repressive and you could say evil in a way. The only thing is one thing lead to the other. In cubas case the imperialism.

Honestly, if you are taking mexico as an example, what are they supposed to do? They were never gonna catch up, always stomped on and taken advantage of, unless they followed the USA example. militarized power, no? Or building volkswagens for pay that they cant survive on.
Imo thats what they did. Not only did they produce the fattest kids worlwilde by copying american fast food diets, they also militarzed and industrialized the most lucrative good that is available to them, drugs. Otherwise they would just go down in their down make avocados for the west. Be the doormat. Would you in the UK let let this be done to you? No. Mexicans are proud people, so are Cubans.

I see you still cannot refute anything because you have no idea about anything you talk about. Just like all the other moronic socialists and commies online. Keep on being clueless about everything while retorting with nonsense.

Also, lol, at Victor pointing out Project Paperclip stuff without mentioning the Soviets took in more Nazis than anyone else. Grow a spine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Osoaviakhim

Ireland was subjected to colonialism so needless to say I'm not a fan of it. I'm not sure if I'd equate it to democracy though or even capitalism as such. Colonialism began centuries ago, often by monarchies which were more absolutist than today, certainly more powerful and less symbolic than today anyway. Colonialism was to me plunder and such things are part of human nature. That certainly doesn't excuse it but how far do we go back?
Ancient Rome, Egypt and Greece had slaves and rape and pillage was the norm against civilian populaces by the victors in wars.

In terms of ifeology Democracy is more laudable than Communism and in terms of a system capitalism- while far from perfect and again the current model in need of valid reform- is again the better option than Communism. Communism while fair sounding on paper is disastrous in practice as history has always shown. Repression, human rights violations and mass murder become become the result, without exception, again as history has shown.

It appeals only to a limited few-those who lead comfortable lives with a romanticized view of it. To zealots. And to in some cases the genuinely oppressed who are ultimately simply desperate for something different some form of change and they don't always choose wisely, even if for this last group there's at least mitigating circumstances for their beliefs.

But bottom line in it's an abomination responsible for the utter misery and murder of untold millions and I don't think it ultimately compares to the (very real and contemptible) atrocities of the west. overall. Which doesn't leave the west immune from critique or condemnation in some respects. But it's the lesser of two evils for me.

Revolution was inevitable in Cuba, they were oppressed for years. What comes after though is sometimes just as bad if not worse than before.
Crime is inevitable when there's poverty. The cartels are the main reason I'm in favour of legalizing and taxing drugs.

JFC he said himself he didn't care about due process, again with the excuses and apologia from you.

context matters. lets see a source?

but also, all of the men executed were tried. and most of the trials did not result in execution.

I already linked the source itt and he boasted on more executions to the United Nations ffs. You're simply a zealot who admires mass murderers. Shame on you.

Paul, it's been 6 years and you're still angry that she lost. It's time to move on. Seriously.

The discussion is about Cuba and Batista likely executed as many civilians as Castro. I read 20,000 on wiki.

Ignoring the big business and mafia ties and Batista's own human rights violations while calling people who are willing to look at the situation objectively bolsheviks pretty much makes Victor's point about liberals.


I know you're investments are doing well and that's all you care about, but we're not talking about you right now.

No one is talking about HRC, but you. Because you have zero ammo on me or anyone else, because like I said you're absolutely clueless in this world as given by your past comments like calling me a neolib. You are every bit equal in lagtight in dragging discussions downward. Grow up little boy and stop taking your cues from Trolly (who never discusses anything in depth because he like you is ultimately wrong on facts).

You're a either a tankie or Nazbol like Victor who denies human rights violations of your communist friendos while wriggling your finger at the US or other Western powers. Because you have no actual beliefs, just anti-beliefs like Victor. Neither of you would be defending Cuba if you were consistent morally.

Víctor is stealing my lines, that’s not cool.

You voted for Hillary and yelled at anyone who didn't love her with the burning passion you did. I know you were only doing what your neolilberal masters ordered you to do but that still makes you a neolib. A neolib who's not smart enough to know he's being manipulated is a neolib nonetheless.

When did I deny human rights violations honey ?

Trolley is smart enough to understand the posts he responds to. So far that's a couple of ranges above your pay grade.

Keep trying though. You have no where to go but up from here.

It's funny to me that anyone on either side tries to score points with Cuba. On one hand, Castro's unquestionably been a tyrannical dictator and Victor's "the US does it too!" deflections would embarrass a preschooler. On the other hand, the West's constant ****ing over of Cuba has been monstrous. The US embargo has produced generations of misery and accomplished nothing; anyone actually committed to capitalism should be demanding it be lifted.

No one points at Haiti or Jamaica and says "this proves capitalism doesn't work" but somehow it's a failure of Communism when Cuba's economy is in shambles after decades of ****ery from the superpower next door.

I don't think anyone ITT is pointing to Cuba as an example of the failure of communism (although I could have missed some posts) - we have the USSR for that. I think the posts you are referring to are those disputing Victor's assertion that it would have been a resounding success if it hadn't been for the evil capitalists.

"genocide, police brutality" terrible conditions in Cuba right now. wtf is going on there?

If you are honest about it, people in Cuba are protesting and are reporting kidnappings and police brutality etc. right now. I wouldnt call it north korea, but it seems fow now that having a cuban passport or to be in cuba is a bad thing.

it was a resounding success despite the evil capitalists

most people in Cuba support the govt there. the counter protests were far larger than the Western supported and publicized protests. dont believe everything you see retweeted by the bots.

The US still has time to be the poster boy of why capitalism doesn't work though.

We've given away our actual capitalist power since NAFTA and now produce debt and consumers. It's been really good for China and India and other emerging countries but I'm not seeing how it's going to end well for us.

But then Britain is still here even though the empire is gone. No one knows anything except what they're born into.

The peasants just get along as best they can.

Also, praxis.

This is what peeves me about the neo liberal dummies, they'll rail about all the human rights violations in communist countries (as they should) and then turn around and totally ignore the human rights violations that the US (a capitalist, imperialist nation) is responsible for.

It's like how Israel is now accusing Ben and Jerry's of antisemitism for not selling ice cream in the occupied territories.

At some point, everyone except you knows you're a piece of ****.