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Luckbox vs. The Media Luckbox vs. The Media

08-06-2019 , 02:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc
I think part of the issue here is that I require some logical consistency to how I think. And I don't see this as a team sport the way that you do. So I don't really care about the Covington kids. Yeah--if you don't want to be presented badly on the news probably don't go to protests wearing maga hats. I get that.
But it does seem pretty clear that the story was slanted in order to do everything I've claimed the media does. Is it a big deal? Well...that depends on whether you want to treat this in isolation or not. If you treat it in isolation it obviously isn't a big deal. But if you treat it as prototypical behavior from the media then it points to a pretty big problem.
If you get that then we're 90% on the same team. Maybe help me out with the heavy lifting and explain this to Kelhus et al?
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08-06-2019 , 02:07 AM
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Originally Posted by itshotinvegas
The El Paso story blew up for the same reason Convington blew up. It feeds the narrative they believe in. The same for the Smollet story. None of them are discussing Dayton. I do not want to say these folks like it when something like this happens (under these circumstances), but they for sure feel validated, you can tell by their post, and their righteous indignation when they say "I told you so", to which Fly has specifically done. They look for the racist angle. Which also tells you who the media is selling too.
SWEET MERCIFUL ALLAH JESUS ****ING CHRIST
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08-06-2019 , 02:20 AM
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Originally Posted by chezlaw
Blimey that brings back memories, comrade 6ix

My god chess was dull.
An article by Hans Kmoch and Fred Reinfeld entitled "Unconventional Surrender" on page 55 of the February 1950 Chess Review tells of the "... example of Nimzowitsch, who ... once missed first prize in a tournament in Berlin by losing to Sämisch, and when it became clear he was going to lose the game, Nimzowitsch stood up on the table and shouted, 'Gegen diesen Idioten muss ich verlieren!' ('That I should lose to these idiots!')".
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08-06-2019 , 03:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas
No, I do not. An inanimate object does not cause things.
Do you think everyone should be allowed to own a nuclear weapon?
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08-06-2019 , 04:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas
I'm not chill. I'm angry about the media and people like you detracting from the causes of this stuff. I'm not happy that mass murder keeps happening either. There is tons of studies pointing to the causes of mass shootings. You and the media actively work to trivialize any causation other than racism/trump (or in the rights case, god and video games, but no one is talking about that here), your need to focus your rage on racism/trump is crazy, and unproductive, if you actually care about these folks dying.

I brought up Dylann Roof's mental illnesses in the other thread.


Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas
...



Fly, I've specifically said mental health wont work either. These folks do not seek treatment, and their personality disorders are not diagnosed until after they committed the atrocity.



...

Once more, I brought up Dylann Roof's mental illnesses in the other thread.

He was moderately-to-severely mentally ill and self-medicated with alcohol and drugs. Among other things he was schizoid, and he was well aware. This didn't make the news because he himself wanted it suppressed. Paraphrasing, he didn't want the mental illnesses to overshadow the racism! It only came out in unsealed posttrial documents.

I know you guys never expect your bluffs to get called but here we are.
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08-06-2019 , 08:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas
Oh contraire amigo. Now we get to the scary part. You can't treat these personality disorders (unless caught in early childhood). And while you can prevent access to guns, as I said before, I would be scared of bombs. Remove all the guns and you'd probably have an impact, but that's not going to happen.

This is a social issue that I do not think can be fixed by government.
That’s just not true. But even if it were, greater access to mental health care/treatment would certainly result in a greater frequency of earlier diagnosis of at-risk individuals. https://www.apa.org/pubs/info/report...nce-prevention

As far as your last point, it’s just incoherent with the rest of your posting. You admit that reducing access to guns would reduce incidence of gun violence, but then you mention bombs, but then hedge that. Then you hedge your stance on gun reduction by saying that you’d have to remove them all and then say “that won’t happen” without an explanation why you think that (ostensibly because of the prevalence of guns in this country). You just say “this is a social issue” and claim government can’t fix it. Well, that’s nice, but you seem to get really upset when people try to use social pressure to influence bad actors. 8Chan getting dropped because of social pressure triggered you into a convoluted bout of fits over liberals discriminating based on speech. If you don’t think there is any solution, that’s fine, but just say it.
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08-06-2019 , 08:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas
You know what, I've explained this three times, in three separate threads. Your pathological focus on racism seem to prevent you from understanding human psychology. Just like it prevents you from understanding the psychological impact of growing up in Chicago around constant violence. Violence breeds violence.
So there's nothing that anyone can do?

Last edited by well named; 08-06-2019 at 09:38 AM.
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08-06-2019 , 09:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas
You know what, I've explained this three times, in three separate threads. Your pathological focus on racism seem to prevent you from understanding human psychology. Just like it prevents you from understanding the psychological impact of growing up in Chicago around constant violence. Violence breeds violence.




With you? Nothing. I do not go out of my way to interact with you.
My post has nothing to do with your quote, I just grabbed it at random. I feel like I owe you an apology. You clearly think I am deliberately distorting your opinions to paint you as a racist or covering for racists. That was not my goal in interacting with you. I have gotten frustrated at times with your posting because from my perspective it comes across as convoluted or contradictory. For instance, in the Islam thread, it really appeared to me that you were criticizing Islam as a whole. What you thought were disclaimers or clarifying/qualifying posts, I admit I missed the first go round, but then you insisted on continuing to frame things by using that ambiguous language. I see that you think you shouldn’t have to be so precise all the time, and that you weren’t intending to attack things as a whole. I interpreted that as playing games where you could have it both ways and that colored the rest of my posting in that thread. I’m sorry for casting your views in an unfavorable and incorrect manner.

However, I’m not sure why you think I’m trying to get you banned. I can only remember a handful of people I’ve ever advocated banning, one was a guy whose screnname was the n-word spelled backwards, and the only other posts I can remember were exasperated comments made in passing. I’m fairly certain I’ve only reported one post in my entire history of posting on this site (it was one made by the dude with the racist screen name).

I generally try to figure out people’s views and point out things that are wrong with them imo. Sometimes I’m harsh, sometimes I’m not depending on the poster is and my mood, but I generally don’t care whether someone has a voice in here or not. For instance, adios is a poster I have no patience for because he has a long history on this board and he drops in and posts the same crap over and over and he has never shifted his opinions despite being shown where they were inaccurate time and again. So I’d appreciate it if you stop accusing me of trying to have you banned or censored or anything like that.
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08-06-2019 , 09:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6ix
An article by Hans Kmoch and Fred Reinfeld entitled "Unconventional Surrender" on page 55 of the February 1950 Chess Review tells of the "... example of Nimzowitsch, who ... once missed first prize in a tournament in Berlin by losing to Sämisch, and when it became clear he was going to lose the game, Nimzowitsch stood up on the table and shouted, 'Gegen diesen Idioten muss ich verlieren!' ('That I should lose to these idiots!')".
Wow. So this puts something into context that happened to me in a 7th grade chess tournament. I beat Phil Melton and he did the same thing. Man he was such a nerd
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08-06-2019 , 09:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWf
So there's nothing that anyone can do?
It's a social issue. We are raising our kids the wrong way. Not everyone, but significant percentage that leads to all kind bad things like racism, extremism, violence. I do not know how to fix it.
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08-06-2019 , 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Money2Burn
My post has nothing to do with your quote, I just grabbed it at random. I feel like I owe you an apology. You clearly think I am deliberately distorting your opinions to paint you as a racist or covering for racists. That was not my goal in interacting with you. I have gotten frustrated at times with your posting because from my perspective it comes across as convoluted or contradictory. For instance, in the Islam thread, it really appeared to me that you were criticizing Islam as a whole. What you thought were disclaimers or clarifying/qualifying posts, I admit I missed the first go round, but then you insisted on continuing to frame things by using that ambiguous language. I see that you think you shouldn’t have to be so precise all the time, and that you weren’t intending to attack things as a whole. I interpreted that as playing games where you could have it both ways and that colored the rest of my posting in that thread. I’m sorry for casting your views in an unfavorable and incorrect manner.

However, I’m not sure why you think I’m trying to get you banned. I can only remember a handful of people I’ve ever advocated banning, one was a guy whose screnname was the n-word spelled backwards, and the only other posts I can remember were exasperated comments made in passing. I’m fairly certain I’ve only reported one post in my entire history of posting on this site (it was one made by the dude with the racist screen name).

I generally try to figure out people’s views and point out things that are wrong with them imo. Sometimes I’m harsh, sometimes I’m not depending on the poster is and my mood, but I generally don’t care whether someone has a voice in here or not. For instance, adios is a poster I have no patience for because he has a long history on this board and he drops in and posts the same crap over and over and he has never shifted his opinions despite being shown where they were inaccurate time and again. So I’d appreciate it if you stop accusing me of trying to have you banned or censored or anything like that.

I will.
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08-06-2019 , 09:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tame_deuces
Do you think everyone should be allowed to own a nuclear weapon?
I really do not really care about guns. What I know is, you are not going to get guns banned, and confiscated, and any gun control you can implement is not going to impact much. I would not have an issue with voting someone who wanted more gun control, I would not have an issue with voting for an 2A person who did not want more gun control.
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08-06-2019 , 09:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Money2Burn
That’s just not true. But even if it were, greater access to mental health care/treatment would certainly result in a greater frequency of earlier diagnosis of at-risk individuals. https://www.apa.org/pubs/info/report...nce-prevention

As far as your last point, it’s just incoherent with the rest of your posting. You admit that reducing access to guns would reduce incidence of gun violence, but then you mention bombs, but then hedge that. Then you hedge your stance on gun reduction by saying that you’d have to remove them all and then say “that won’t happen” without an explanation why you think that (ostensibly because of the prevalence of guns in this country). You just say “this is a social issue” and claim government can’t fix it. Well, that’s nice, but you seem to get really upset when people try to use social pressure to influence bad actors. 8Chan getting dropped because of social pressure triggered you into a convoluted bout of fits over liberals discriminating based on speech. If you don’t think there is any solution, that’s fine, but just say it.
I'm convinced this stuff starts at an early age, and largely due to bad parenting. I do not know how you fix bad parenting.
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08-06-2019 , 10:25 AM
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You are right, you do not have a frequency of mass murder in these other places, but again they did not have a Columbine, followed by x, followed by x. It never occurred in the first place.
How many more mass shootings have Norway and France had?
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08-06-2019 , 10:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
How many more mass shootings have Norway and France had?
It's not that simple. The prevalence of mass shootings started to trend upward after Columbine, and gained steam after each subsequent one. That progression may, or may not occur in other countries. You guys can blame Trump, and right wing extremism, and guns, but the extent of mass shootings started increasing long before Trump, and access to guns have not markedly changed.

There were 26 mass shootings prior to Columbine in 1999, that was a total since 1982. There were 88 afterwards, up to now.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics...nes-full-data/
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08-06-2019 , 10:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas
It's not that simple. The prevalence of mass shootings started to trend upward after Columbine, and gained steam after each subsequent one. That progression may, or may not occur in other countries. You guys can blame Trump, and right wing extremism, and guns, but the extent of mass shootings started increasing long before Trump.

There were 26 mass shootings prior to Columbine in 1999, that was a total since 1982. There were 88 afterwards, up to now.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics...nes-full-data/
No one has said Trump has any responsibility for mass shootings generally, just El Paso.

Do you even think Charles Manson had any responsibility?
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08-06-2019 , 10:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas
That progression may, or may not occur in other countries.
This is you admitting that your theory is full of ****.
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08-06-2019 , 10:46 AM
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access to guns have not markedly changed.
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08-06-2019 , 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by MrWookie
This is you admitting that your theory is full of ****.

How many times do I need to explain the psychology of mass shooters to you, while supporting it with information from experts? And it's not me actually explaining it, it's just me passing along science.
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08-06-2019 , 11:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas
How many times do I need to explain the psychology of mass shooters to you? And it's not me actually explaining it, it's just me passing along science.
Repeating bull**** is still bull****.
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08-06-2019 , 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by FlyWf
Now do semiautomatic rifles/handguns.
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08-06-2019 , 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by MrWookie
Repeating bull**** is still bull****.
That's rather arrogant. There is no other way to respond to this. Because you do not like what study, after study, says, it's bull****?
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08-06-2019 , 11:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas
That's rather arrogant. There is no other way to respond to this. Because you do not like what study, after study, says, it's bull****?
By my count you've cited a single scientific study, and it doesn't say what you want it to say.
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08-06-2019 , 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by itshotinvegas
Now do semiautomatic rifles/handguns.
No.

I'm not gonna do your ****ing homework for you. You don't have a coherent argument here that data could support, as best as we can tell your explanation is some sort of national parenting deficit.

Come on man, do you even own a gun? You're just lashing out at the libs for someone else's hobby, that's some deeply sad ****.
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08-06-2019 , 11:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
By my count you've cited a single scientific study, and it doesn't say what you want it to say.
Here is a list of a few I found on this website: https://www.treatmentadvocacycenter....-mass-homicide

Quote:
In 2018, the FBI released a report on A Study of the Pre-Attack Behaviors of Active Shooters in the United States Between 2008 and 2013. The authors selected 63 cases on which records were more complete among the 160 total active shooter cases. The authors restricted their study to verified information in the FBI records; thus, there was much missing mental health information. They reported that 16 of the 40 (40%) on which such information was available had received a psychiatric diagnosis; 44 of the 63 (70%) had “mental health stressors” and/or “mental health concerning behaviors” prior to the attack; and 30 of the 35 (86%) on which such information was available had suicidal ideation or had made suicide attempts prior to the attack.

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In 2018, the US Secret Service National Threat Assessment Center released a report on Mass Attacks in Public Spaces—2017. It analyzed 28 such incidents that had taken place in 2017. It reported that 18 (64%) of the attackers “experienced mental health symptoms prior to their attack; 9 (32%) were psychotic and 7 (25%) had been hospitalized for treatment or prescribed psychiatric medication prior to their attacks.

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A 2014 report by the FBI reported a sharp rise in mass shootings between 2000 and 2013. The average number of such shootings between 2000 and 2006 was 6.4 per year, according to the report. Between 2007 and 2013, the average increased to 16.4. The FBI did not include information on mental illness in this report but said that it would be reported later.
(well before trump)

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In 2012, a survey in Mother Jones by Follman and colleagues identified 62 mass shootings between 1982 and 2012. The survey included only those incidents in which four or more people were killed (not including the shooter) and that were not “related to gang activity or armed robbery.” The review also included only those in which guns were used as the weapon and thus excluded individuals such as David Attias, diagnosed with bipolar disorder, who in 2001 drove his car onto a Santa Barbara sidewalk, killing four and injuring nine. (Attias left his car following the attack and announced that he was the “angel of death.” Five years previously, he had been hospitalized after trying to kill his sister.)

The survey suggested a trend of increasing mass homicide (see Figure 1):

• 1982–1992: 14
• 1993–2002: 19
• 2003–2012: 29 (including 7 in 2012)

Although no attempt was made to obtain extensive psychiatric data, the authors reported that “a majority were mentally ill—and many displayed signs of it before setting out to kill.” Among the 62 shooters, 36 also killed themselves, and 7 others died in shootouts with the police, suspected of being “suicide by cop.” The authors concluded, “Mental illness among the killers is no surprise, ranging from paranoid schizophrenia to suicidal depression.”

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In 2000, the New York Times published a detailed survey by Fessenden of 100 “rampage killers” who committed mass killings between 1949 and 1999. The survey included all “multiple-victim killings that were not primarily domestic or connected to a robbery or gang.” The survey included crimes with “multiple victims, at least one of whom died, and to have occurred substantially at one time.” A total of 425 people were reported killed and 510 injured. The number of such incidents was as follows (see Figure 2).

• 1982–1992: 14
• 1993–2002: 19
• 2003–2012: 29 (including 7 in 2012)

Fessenden concluded “the incidences of these rampage killings appear to have increased.”

The author also reported that of the 100 cases “63 involved people who made threats of violence before the event... In case after case, family members, teachers and mental health professionals missed or dismissed signs of deterioration.” For example, James Brady “told psychiatrists he wanted to kill people just days before he went on a rampage in an Atlanta shopping mall in 1990.”

The survey additionally reflected “much evidence of mental illness in its subjects. More than half had histories of serious mental health problems (and)… 48 killers had a formal diagnosis, often schizophrenia.” Of these 48 offenders, 24 had been prescribed psychiatric drugs, but “14 had stopped taking them.”

Quote:
In 1999, Hempel and colleagues at the University of North Texas identified 30 mass killings for which extensive information was available. The killings occurred between 1949 and 1998 in the United States and Canada. Mass killings were defined as those events where at least three people were killed, excluding the killer; only firearms-related killings were included. Even though the 30 killings they identified took place over a 50-year period, 21 (70%) took place more recently, from 1986 to 1998. This suggests that there has been an increase in the incidence of such killings. Twelve perpetrators had psychotic symptoms at the time of the killings, and another 8 individuals “exhibited behavior suggestive of psychosis”; thus 20 of the 30 perpetrators (67%) had definite or probable psychosis. The most common diagnoses were schizophrenia, delusional disorder and major depression. Fifteen of the perpetrators had a documented history of psychiatric hospitalization or visits to a mental health professional. Alcohol was found to play a role in only 3 of the 30 killings.
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