You're in lala land. These kids are not on Facebook saying, "Hey, let's all rob the Nordstrom in Walnut Creek at 8pm." This is organized crime and a lot better organized that you think it is.

Around 80 people hit the Nordstrom store, and it's not going to stop until all the retailers close up shop and stick to selling online. Then they'll be smash and grabbing people's houses instead.

Yeah, 60 cops take an Uber and hide in a department store, hoping their lead pans out. All for misdemeanor theft, as anything under $950 is equivalent to stealing a pack of gum in California. Is having 60 cops waiting for a crime to happen part of defunding the police?

The problem here is that you eventually reach a tipping point.

If the new norm in Cali is one bedroom apts costing 3k while min wage at 15/hour with a continuous increase of the jobs available paying min wage then something will no doubt give. Whether it's this or something else, the grown adults on the bottom are going to have to be provided for to a certain degree if you want Santa to visits Macy's without interruption.

I remember playing Command & Conquer when I was younger and in that game you could build a structure called an Obelisk, which would vaporise advancing enemy units with high power lasers:



A few of those outside Macy's would solve the problem, no?

I doubt the <$950 is a per conspirator/accomplice cap.

Also, that cap might apply to the value of the property stolen, but not the means used to obtain it. Robbing someone at gunpoint for $5 is not misdemeanor larceny, it's armed robbery, which is very much a felony. The misdemeanor larceny cap is basically for petty shoplifting or kids stealing cash out of their mom's purse.

Why would you doubt that?

Because frequently conspirators or participants in organized crime are charged for the totality of the crimes committed irrespective of their roles or cut of the loot and I haven't heard of any getaway drivers arguing they should only get charged with double parking.

That's logical, but California isn't logical, and AOC is out there saying that these crimes are not organized.

Def logical to blame CA problems on a young NY House member.

I didn't blame her for CA problems, but I'll blame her for gaslighting that those CA problems don't exist because, you know, that's what's she's doing.

I'm thinking even CA is logical enough to figure out a way to up the charges on the (fictional) 80 perps who mob the armored car courier, making off with $75K. That or since a few will probably end up getting shot and killed in the process, charged with capital murder.

Felony* murder^^

Wat? Robbing an armored car is different than 80 people lifting items from Nordstrom, which is something that actually happened. Are you siding with AOC that this is just make believe?

If you're right about what will happen if the stores close then much the same will happen if they secure the stores wont it?

Probably best to tackle organised crime. Obviously legalising drugs is a prerequisite and if we dont then here's not much point in bemoaning the inevitable consequences.

Yeah, that's what I meant.

No, I think they're organized. But robbery requires either the use of force or the implication that force will be used. So if it was orchestrated more along the lines of a purse-snatching it may not qualify as robbery. Although it's not inconceivable that the courier would perceive it as a threat, so I guess it just depends on the totality of the circumstances.

YOu are the one who is delusional.

There simply is no way this is all word of mouth and these people are not using their phone and some App or Forum to get people to swarm. Same for how they showed up and rushed that concert. This is being coordinated on some platform.

If 80 people showed up to Nordstroms that probably meant 500 people got the message and 80 then actually showed.

You seem to live in this fantasyland where these 80 young kids and the wider 500 are hardened criminals who will never crack under any form of interrogation? Where cops with informants in those communities cannot get an answer to what platform these guys are chatting on and then simply join as if a member waiting to swarm on the next call out.

Again, there simply is no way that you can rally 80 people to show up without being on a platform that involves many times that. You just need one cop or one informant int hat group feeding the cops the info and they can counter this.

And phones and social media will no doubt provide evidence to charge these people with more than just petty shop lifting.

But...you know, justice is slow so it's best to stand on your front lawn and shoot anyone who walks by. (dead men don't shoplift)

In case anyone was wondering how weak and scared and stupid the average American is these days just ponder these right wing narratives.

We need a do over.

AOC and Bail Reform are another reason the GOP is going to crush the midterms

Yesterday some dude torched the Fox Christmas tree and even though a lengthy record never spent a night in jail. Charged with misdemeanor arson

Part of me thinks watch him show up in a few days and burn it down again

Land O Lakes has imagined this 80 wide group as hardened criminals that would make a Gotti crime syndicate blush.

'No way coppers, you will ever make me talk. I take these secrets to the grave'.

He is saying it just would not be achievable for cops to get from any individual arrested in these raids the method by which they are all chatting and then join the group chats (get in the chain of notifications) or have that person arrested do it for a break in their charges? None of these guys have priors which would make them want to cooperate. Nope. 'Lock me up and throw away the key...I aint giving you sh*t coppers!' is the fantasy he has crafted to convince himself that civilians arming and shooting them is the only likely way to deal with this.

The fact of the matter (as Hollywood loves to play up) is the weakest link in any conspiratorial cooperation crime (5 guys robbing a bank, etc) is one guy talking to much or showing off the goods after the fact that leads the police right to them, and then getting them to talk.

I am sorry to tell LoL that 80 people, and hundreds more in the loop, are not a iron curtain of silence.

They have some way of instantaneously sending a message to hundreds of people (thousands in the Concert gate rushing example) of a loose plan to show up at X location at X time to overwhelm any security and staff so they can pull off their theft. This type of crime does not work without very specific details. They must show up at the same store at basically the same time for it to work.

it should be trivially easy for cops to get someone in to these groups to monitor communications. If they are constantly switching how and where they communicate they STILL need to tell 80 (or the 500 behind them) what the switch is as they cannot lose that audience and have no one show. The very nature of required MASS attendance means they cannot be careful with who is on the lists unless one imagines this is an iron tight small coordinated group of 80 only and no outsiders are allowed in to the threads.

Craig Tamanaha was taken into custody at the West 48th Street and Sixth Avenue scene just after midnight and charged hours later with a bevy of crimes, including arson, reckless endangerment, criminal mischief and trespassing, the NYPD said.

I guess we could just shoot him and then everyone would vote Blue.

Stop lighting things on fire in the middle of a public square. Thanks.

- Management



I'm more of a Mengsk than a Raynor.

I’m curious what additional charges you think should be filed.

The smash and grab crimes fall under commercial burglary and are not considered shoplifting. Commercial burglary in California can be charged as either a misdemeanor or felony at the prosecutor’s discretion. Those that have been caught in San Fran have been charged with a felony Commercial burglary along with grand theft among other charges.

The $950 limit is an aggregate number so if one steals $500 one week and then $500 the next week in a separate theft that is considered greater than $950. This is under the organized retail theft law signed by Newsome this summer which is essentially 2 or more people stealing from a store.

Cheers