Maybe and obviously serious political campaigns have a need for a high standard of behavior.

That's no reason to try to push so many into the arms of the right. People dont have to be perfect or behave like adults all the time to have left wing views and support the policies we want.

Are you saying Trolly is not 'left' on the spectrum or merely he does not speak for all on the left, or something else?

I am not suggesting he speaks for all, but I am saying you can see clearly in Trolly's attempt to slander and deceive everyone knowing few, if any will listen to the episode that if he keeps repeating a blatant lie, he will get some to accept it.

That tactic was never unique to Trump, and many lefties, like Trolly use it every bit as willingly and maliciously as trump does.


Think about what Trolly is saying. This area has science evolving and being adapted daily. What joe believed was not even formally known or conclusive X weeks prior. The first time Joe sat down with someone educated enough to put the proper data in front of him he adapted his view.

Trolly's position is 'not fast enough'.
It is like I say with politically correct speech purists. The day after they know a new term, anyone who does not is racist, transphobe, etc.

They allow no time for the other person to learn and catch up and then when they do they use their admission that they had it wrong, as proof they were a racist, transphobe, Anti-vaxxer, etc.

Just to be claear. Most of the time no version should be used. The more PC version doens't become ok if it's being used offensively.

Sometimes it comes up when refering to others use. If your saying there's no shock value difference then that is totally wrong. That shock value justifies Stewart Lee's use but it's usually better to avoid it. If for example we discuss the Hurricane by Dylan (Desire - great album) which occasionally gets complaints when played then we might better refer to his use of the n word.

This is not optics. There is a real difference.

Do you go around in the real world calling people you disagree with Derps, Or just in the comfort of your home behind a keyboard? Either way it's extremely bizarre behaviour from a middle aged bloke.

His uses seem a bit more problematic, but I haven't examined this seriously and it might be my bias coming into play.


I disagree with you and Joe here, and I also think "virtue signaling" is almost entirely made-up nonsense the right invented to try to make the left look insincere. I don't think any consequences should necessarily arise from Joe's opinions on this, though.

I do. I have a black friend who would absolutely "think it was wrong to use the word in that spot". I mean, I haven't discussed this DIRECTLY with him, but there's no doubt. He's more of the "church" or "square" type that hangs out with us weed-smoking sinners because we play chess tournaments together. One time, me, him, and our white buddy were in our hotel room, my white friend was singing along to a rap song, said the n-word, and our black friend got pretty upset at him. It was awkward as hell. Our white friend apologized immediately. So, for those who thought that was only a trope people share on Facebook, it can happen in real life.

i don't take issue if that is your view for you.

I don't agree it with generally as POC and know others do not, not that our small sample size matters. But I am quite certain you will here an Ooboo taking issue with it or an activist while most POC think it is silly and something they don't care about.

But that is just my view.

What is your view about the Dictionary printing the actual word instead of using Nword as the substitution and then explaining what they mean? Is it offense to 'see' the word when used properly and as a descriptor or is it only offensive to the other sense, hearing, given proper context?

It used to be that people dropped racial slurs because they were bigoted *******s, now they do it because it’s silly fun to say the Naughty Words the teacher doesn’t want you to say.

And this, what are we supposed to do with this right here?

Is this what you actually think is going on, QP? People hear “the N-word” and they’re confused by it? Like woah, I wonder which word he’s talking about there!

He is defintitely on the left. Just a wierd fringe part of the left. Which is ok but it mustn't be allowed to be seen as what the left is like just because of the noise.

Trolley just wants him gone from the mainstream along with his audience. Put them all in the hands of fox news or even worse. It's a very odd approach to politics.

I couldn't give an f-word about this whole thing, but I'd think saying "He said 'the nword, the actual nword" is moronic. If you are quoting someone who said "n***er", you could say "he said the nword" potentially adding "with an A" or "with a hard 'er'". If you are quoting someone who said "nword", you could say "he said 'nword'". What sort of cretin says "he said the nword, the actual nword"? What is being clarified with the addition of "the actual nword"?

No idea who you are, but I have news for you - this very outdated forum is all middle age blokes. I just happen to still be in the industry based on these forums (one of the few here) so I still have fun reading some of this stuff while watching the guys I back play. Feel free to join the line of people who are weirdly obsessed about me, a behavior I never quite understood. I personally do not care what you choose to identify as in comparison. Just put me on ignore if you cannot handle my posts or learn to do better personal attacks, because I always applaud good ones when I see one. Keep trying if you choose that option.

All the best.

I won't deny your anecdotes as I would not accept people denying mine. Different strokes...

That said, you can hate the terms but 'virtue signaling', 'woke shaming' and 'purity tests' are definitely a thing on the far left and most on the left know it and accept it.

It leads to people like Matt Damon and Sarah Silverman being attacked for often well meaning but not perfectly formed thoughts as people on the far left over react.

it is an absolute disease on the left that people like Obama recognize 'needs to stop'.

Trolly and uke (in the trans thread) are the best exemplars of it and proof.

OK, but I feel confident enough to speak for Trolly here and say that he doesn't want to cancel Bob Dylan for using the n-word in a song he wrote 50 years ago. Or ban/burn Huckleberry Finn. He's not advocating for censorious behavior (unlike the right-wingers actively banning Maus and other art in schools) So, I don't understand what anybody's issue with him is, here.

Hurricane is a jam, great song.

Monty did that up thread already, so YES.

I said in a format like Sesame street teaching kids about slurs and language they should say 'and when it comes to the Nword...' and Monty thought I meant it was ok for them to use the actual word there despite me not saying 'and I mean the abbreviated and not the real version'.

So yes if i say people can look and see and quote me saying the 'Nword' four times in this thread they will not know if I mean 'the actual word' or the abbreviated version without the extra clarity.

I've used both, but which am I saying I used 4 times with the above???

Well PC has been extremely successful during my lifetime. Many say they dont care about it but they have taken it onboard maybe without realising it. Language really matters and the language has been transformed. That doesn't mean it's not messy at times or runs into problems and failures

As for the dictionary. If it's a word then it's a word. That doesn't speak to when it's ok to be used. (i dont have a printed version anymore and I dont fancy googling to see what it says).

It's pretty easy really. They can say 'nword'" means "nword". "They can say the nword" means "n***er". I'd have thought this self-evident to any native speaker.

Just replace "n-word" with "f-word" and it's pretty obvious. I don't really care what words people go around saying (for the most part, anyway), but this frontal assault on grammar is beginning to irk me.

Yeah, if he said "they said the f-bomb on Sesame Street" my first thought should be that they literally said the term "f-bomb." Otherwise, I am confused.

Heh, that is not accurate. You wrote a post that was kind of not easy to understand, likely because you are currently writing hundreds of meandering posts a day, so that will happen. Still, I applaud your weaker communication in that post as being my fault - I always like a good bait and switch tactic like you are trying to use here, and I also like that you milked that one emotional derp for $500 and soon $1,000 for his need to invasion martingale, so you get a thumbs up for both those tactics!

it is not weird in the purity test left.

They would purge any and all perceived sinners on the left. They want them all gone. Al Franken was not the first, just one of the most visible.

But you are correct, beyond that, how they think they are improving things is beyond me.

Joe Rogan, as many point out is one of the few voices who true young right leaning boys listen to and most of his positions are Bernie Sanders like lefty stuff. He goes into depth why racism discussions are still needed. Why policing and institutional racism need attention. Wealth inequality. Anti war. etc, etc and they actual listen to him.

But begone with him. So who, Tucker Carlson, can fill more of that void?

I agree and the the point about Dylan was nothing to do with trolley. On other issues and with some justification maybe as Dylan is facing some very serious accusations (which he denies).

The album is just epic.

And yet I am not clear on what you are saying as I am not saying it is not easy, I am saying it is gratitutous and clumsy.

Reporter : In his speech he just said the Nword but by Nword I mean the actual word and not the politically correct version I just used.

Reporter 2 : in his speech he just said the word ni**er.


are you saying one is easy and fine and that is what you think should be said? I am fine with that view. I just see no issue with the Reporter in spot 2 stating it the proper way.

It;s not wierd within the purity test but most on the left do not do the wierd purity thing.

Like in too much of politcs we let the tail wag the dog far too much. We haven't really talked about the media but their role in this is disasterous. The frenzy we see is a result of a tiny noisy group providing material for media entertainment content.

Are we disambiguating between whether someone said "n***er" or "n***a" or whether someone said "n***er" or "nword"? I don't even know what is meant by "the politically correct version".

I've argued this before; these things are way, way, way more of a thing within the moderate, Democratic-voting MSNBC-style centrists than the "far left". The far left is way more concerned with economic and foreign policy (i.e., crushing income inequality and ending US imperialism, respectively), you know, actual policy that affects all of our citizens.

Like, go on Twitter and check out the posters with the hammer and sickle in their name; they're not talking about this **** practically at all. Basically, as a matter of political principle, we think the culture-war stuff is one big giant distraction from the pressing issues we face.

Marxism is all about material concerns, and practically ignores all culture stuff.

Ok so visual sense word = good and appropriate

Auditory sense word = bad and inappropriate

Is that fair?

Because they certainly could sensor it writing in the exact same way putting "Nword' and then adding the verbiage most speakers to do to make it clear to what they mean, but for some strange reason they don't and they assume you can handle seeing the actual word. But again hearing it, no.


What about Novels? Should the actual word be purged in favour of "Nword' always or mostly? And then what about book to TV or Film adaptions? If it was allowed in the books because visual is ok, should it be purged for TV and film as auditory is not?

A debate between historians over the use of racial language, is a good example.

As they sit and talk can and should they say the word ni**er, in full or use the 'Nword' as substitute believing it to be more political correct?

I love how they’re trying to make not saying the Nword some kind of left wing extremist idea. It was pretty much the one thing everyone agreed was bad before the Roganbros decided they really, really needed to hear Rogan drop some N-bombs.