I cant grasp the sort of morally bankrupt culture that would willingly sacrifice their own sons and daughters for the opportunity to murder 100s of thousands of others.

Stage 1: 33 women or children. Dead or alive. Remains count. In exchange for 990 live prisoners, who have been there the longest. This is a 42 day phase. They would release about 3 a day. Dead or alive. 3 dead remains for 90 prisoners. Israel needs to withdraw from where they are. Everybody goes to their homes

That's just phase 1

Phase 2. Complete withdrawl. Dead or alive prisoner for live prisoners. Israel pays for rebuilding

Phase 3. Gaza rebuilt

Phase 4: oct 7 repeat

Hamas still won't give a list of hostages

Hamas accepted the proposal they made to themselves.

It's journalistic malpractice to continue the headlines "Hamas accepted..." anything. They reiterated their demands and asked Israel to surrender again.

It's also possible Sinwar and his boys know the clock is ticking on them and are trying to save their skin.

nobody is surrendering. and nobody is getting rid of hamas.
theyve been trying for the last 80 years and didnt get one inch closer.

dream on...

thats bc the idf has never really tried to negotiate.
if they negotiated, where are the transcripts?

Washoe, you claimed actual court transcripts could be faked when making an argument for mega rapist Daniel Holtzclaw's innocence. I take it the same argument doesn't apply here?

no, transcripts have to be provided.

The significance isn't that Hamas came out with a fake "agreement". The significance is that Western and Israeli left media is pretending it is legit, and obfuscating how much of a joke it is.

We also just suspended an ammunition shipment to Israel.

It is pretty obvious this is Biden and the State Dept making it clear they want Israel to stop hostilities on Hamas terms.

And there is nothing unprecedented in such a strategy from the US. The US has always balanced its commitments to Israel with its commitments to Israel's enemies; and normally forces Israel to end wars to appease Arab concerns.

The Holtzclaw case looked super shady given that there was.... you know...no actual evidence against him besides the testimony of crack heads.

But what if they're um, faked the way you think Holtzclaw's could be? (lmao)

they had one piece of DNA, which wasnt even real DNA,
thats what they basically convicted him for. the smoking gun... which was trace DNA, you can get that from anyone anywhere.

THIS PERSON, whos DNA they found DROPPED OUT of the law suit now. THIS ALONE IS very telling. WHy is she dropping out??
Not to mention the crackheads who they basically had to kick out of court for lying.

the case was total bs btw.
we are in the palestine thread, stop derailing.

Notice, I am not arguing this would be good for the Palestinians. Ending now with Hamas still in charge would be a giant L for the people of Gaza.

Israel and Egypt aren't going to open the cage doors with Hamas still in charge. They are just going to build the bars thicker and the walls higher, metaphorically and literally.

But the Biden Administration and State Dept. clearly feel this is what is in its best interests right now.

A) As in the testimony of crackheads which withstood defence cross to the jury's satisfaction
B) Not all testimony was by crackheads
C) Witnesses and victims come from all walks of life, even crackheads and I hope you're never on a jury if a sex worker is raped, if your comments re addicts are anything to go by.

Anyway I only mentioned rapey boy as washoe specifically mentioned transcripts as proof while not accepting such proof in another instance, so let's not derail the thread.

I'm not in Trolly's bunch or anyone else's, but I'll read your links and won't laugh at them unless they are from the NY Post or National Inquirer.

Oh I won't derail and point taken but maybe you should show some consistency is all, instead of your usual magical thinking.

There's a truly unique situation in play where Bibi's job can be lost before Biden's (and excellent odds they're both done). It's creating the weirdest dynamic that forces things to change week to week of late. If Bibi's job wasn't in jeopardy, I think Israel would have absolutely no issue hanging Biden out to dry and trying their luck with Trump. But because Bibi needs Biden at this very moment, this weird state of play continues. The one that sort of relies on normalization + "peace" as a way to save either both their jobs, or one of their jobs and one of their legacies.

Politics really do make these situations so much less efficient than they could otherwise be. Like in a non-election year, Biden behaves totally differently (obviously).

It was brought to my attention that there have been more insults in here than normal. Please tone it down. Maybe take a break from this thread if you need. Regardless of any history, short bans may be given if things seem out of control later today or tomorrow when I can make it back here.

You've taken a lot of criticism in this thread, but lately your posts have been both accurate and calm. I wish i could have said all of this as eloquently as you did

Vic i posted al jazeera's description

Israel never agreed to withdraw from gaza
Israel never agreed to end the war with hamas in power
Israel never agreed that dead bodies count in the 33
None of it

Just stop

The IDF said it took control of the Palestinian side of the Rafah border crossing between Gaza and Egypt. An Israeli delegation landed in Egypt to continue negotiations for a cease-fire/hostage deal with Hamas. PM Netanyahu said the proposal Hamas agreed to was far from Israel's demands, the New York Times reported it contains "minor word changes" from the version Israel approved, and officials told Haaretz that a key difference was whether live or dead hostages would be released. Israel's Shin Bet chief visited Sweden to inspect security procedures ahead of the Eurovision Song Contest.

Here's what you need to know 214 days into the war


What happened today

Israeli soldiers carry the casket of Master Sgt. Nahman Natan Hertz during his funeral at Mt. Herzl military cemetery in Jerusalem on Tuesday.

■ HOSTAGES/CEASE-FIRE: An Israeli delegation landed in Egypt to continue negotiations for a cease-fire/hostage release deal with Hamas. Earlier on Tuesday a senior Israeli official told Reuters that the proposal Hamas agreed to is "unacceptable."
PM Netanyahu said that the proposal agreed to by Hamas is far from Israel's demands, and claimed that Hamas' acceptance is intended to torpedo Israel's entry into Rafah. War cabinet minister Benny Gantz said Israel's negotiation team in Cairo must leave no stone unturned to reach a deal, and that "we will not allow political considerations to be involved."

The cease-fire proposal that Hamas said it accepted on Monday contains "minor wording changes" from the original offer Israel and the U.S. had presented, the New York Times reported. However officials told Haaretz that one key difference is that Israel demanded Hamas release 33 live hostages in the first stage of the deal, but Hamas proposed 33 hostages who are "dead or alive."

White House national security spokesperson John Kirby said "a close assessment of the two sides' positions suggests that they should be able to close the remaining gaps," and that CIA chief Bill Burns is attending negotiations to represent the U.S.

A Qatari Foreign Ministry spokesperson described Hamas' response to the truce proposal as "positive," adding that a Qatari delegation will head to Cairo to resume indirect negotiations between Israel and Hamas.

Far-right Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich said sending a delegation to Cairo is "a mistake and a fall into the manipulative trap set for us" by Hamas, Qatar and Egypt, adding that Israel should "talk only with fire," not giving into international pressure and not ending the war until "the submission of the enemy." He failed to mention securing the return of Israeli hostages held by Hamas.

Family members of hostages held in Gaza said during a protest in Tel Aviv that if ending the war is the only way to return the captives, then Israel should end the war.
■ GAZA: The IDF said it took control of the Palestinian side of the Rafah border crossing between Gaza and Egypt overnight into Tuesday. Israel's Defense Minister Yoav Gallant said that the operation in Rafah will not stop until Hamas is eliminated or the first hostage is released.
Israel's incursion into Rafah will be "a limited military operation" with the objective of pressuring Hamas to agree to a hostage release deal, CNN reported, citing a source familiar with the details. White House national security spokesperson John Kirby later said Israel told the U.S. that its operation in Rafah "was limited, and designed to cut off from Hamas' ability to smuggle weapons and funds into Gaza."

Hamas said that Israel's seizing of the Rafah crossing aims to undermine efforts to reach a cease-fire agreement. The Palestinian Authority had called on the U.S. to "intervene immediately" to prevent Israel from invading Rafah, the official Palestinian WAFA news agency reported.

Egypt's Foreign Ministry warned that Israel's operation in Gaza's Rafah threatens cease-fire efforts, and called it "a dangerous escalation threatening over a million Palestinians."



This is all from Haaretz

Mosab Hassan Yousef (ex Hamas) figures the last offer is a trap anyway. Can't say I disagree with him. Hopefully the Israelis continue to take the path that Sinwar wants the least.

oh look, Israel breaking more international laws.